How long should a survival knife be?

I have no clue how long a good survival knife should be. I am on a limited budget and I am debating whether I should get the schrade schf36 (5 inches) or schf37 (7 inches). I would be doing light - medium chopping and batoning as well as some general bushcraft (notches, making feather sticks...etc). I like the portability of the schf36 but I don't want to be limited with what I can do. Any suggestions?

Thanks
In my opinion, gained from experience:
1---- about 4.5 - 7 inch blade.
2---- both those knives are about $30 bucks
3---- if you stick with either mentions, I would get the 37, as you " don't want to be limited"- a bit more chopping
4---- I believe review of those say the handles are a bit rough. How tough are your hands?
5---- Get a saw, lik others have said.
6---- go use it
 
A knife with a 7" (approximate) blade is my go-to; big enough to chop with and short enough overall length to be worn easily on a belt. The recurve camp second from the right may be my all-time favorite in this size/range...

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Or, my TGLB or scrapyard SOD... Again 7" blades.

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I'd suggest the schrade schf37 over the 36... :thumbup: FWIW I had a SCHF1SM extreme and it was a poor performer due to the short blade (bad for chopping and thick as heck grind/edge). :thumbdn: Solid knife but no bueno in the woods LOL.
 
Making traps is one of the few things that does require some whittling, but really I have to wonder: What kind of caloric value can you expect out of traps? How often will a tiny critter go by and get strangled or smashed, and is there enough meat in there for it to be even worth the effort to prepare it?

From what I've seen of one guy who lived one year in a northern forest, even some bigger critters like a beaver(?) he shot were almost completely unedible because their meat was so strangely arranged, tough and low in caloric value... He spent way more calories trying to get something out of it than he got from it: I think it tasted so awful he couldn't eat it at all...

I'd rather try to fish instead, but here again, if only small streams are available, what kind of fish size can you hope to get? I would spend some effort finding a bigger body of water rather than try to lay traps...

Can anyone really make enough small animal traps to live on such small critters? Has anyone had any experience actually living on such a diet?

In any case, a Survival situation is unlikely to go on for over two weeks without some kind of resolution...: I would consider two weeks an amazingly severe ordeal... In fact pretty much unthinkable save for a floatplane trip to the Great North...

I think exposure would be by far the biggest issue: You can easily skip food entirely for over a week, and still move around. Trying to feed yourself an unfamiliar and inadequate diet can have worse consequences than simply nibbling at a few fruits to keep going until you find a road or a bigger body of water... Compared to hunger, sleeping exposed to the wind and rain can kill you in minutes...

Gaston
 
The Native Americans that used to survive over winter on rabbits ate the ENTIRE rabbit - including the guts - to get enough fat. However, as a supplement to a diet of other foraged foods, probably better than not eating the animal at all. Either way, you need to know how to make such a trap and be able to process what it catches, and whether you are staying put or trying to travel fast.

You need the skills to go with the blade, and the blade either needs to have the most likely uses in mind with its design, or be so general as to handle every contingency to some extent. A sharp knife of any size is better nothing, and a knife that is so big it got left in the car is nothing.
 
The Native Americans that used to survive over winter on rabbits ate the ENTIRE rabbit - including the guts - to get enough fat. However, as a supplement to a diet of other foraged foods, probably better than not eating the animal at all. Either way, you need to know how to make such a trap and be able to process what it catches, and whether you are staying put or trying to travel fast.

My stepbrother caught a fair number of rabbits with a simple snare; big knife, medium knife, small knife, any work for things like snares.

For catching animals, being able to tell where they go habitually will be a huge thing.
 
Any "Survival Knife" should be expected to be able to build a shelter... All my knives have at least one thermal blanket, often wrapped around the sheath or attached to it, and over 20 feet of rope...

The simple act of building a shelter is hugely draining to a knife, I would even say it is damaging, not just wearing... And by the time you are done building a real shelter, depending on the wood you encounter, you are cutting wood with a butter knife (which is why it is best to start with the sharpest thinnest edge possible, on the biggest possible knife)...

Re-sharpening in the field will not allow you to do a heavy edge re-profile, so that will only provide a moderate amount of help along the way in slowing down the edge decay: A thin edge will last a lot longer than a thick edge, because all the re-sharpening in the field will do is gradually open the angle... Start out with as closed an angle as you can...: I consider 15 degrees per side borderline excessive... And that often means avoiding thick convex edges like on a San Mai III Trailmaster... A thick edge, even one that shaves hair, is exactly the opposite of what you want for rough work...

A longer edge will also last longer, just because there is more of it... Putting the title "Survival" on those tiny bushcraft blades is a patently ridiculous fad because of this edge durability issue alone... Why not deliberately start out with soft untreated steel while you are at it?

Chopping power below 9" very quickly goes down: 10" blades are a jump in performance even over 9". I would say a good Survival Knife should have a 10" blade minimum. Avoid full tangs that transmit vibrations to the hand: I prefer stick tangs or hollow handles.

Edge wear is why main edge serrations can actually help (if the knife's edge is typical factory work and not very thin), because serrated edges will retain some cutting ability, without sharpening, and do this for many multiples of the hard use plain edges will widthstand... This is why having a thin profile serrated edge on the spine, which relatively few knives ever do -a rare exception being the AL Mar SF-10- makes a lot of sense, and may make more sense than having a low-performance wood saw there...

This is one reliable expert's view (agreeing with at least a few others) on what is required for true survival:

http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Survival.htm

“Bush” Blades... Function or Fad?

- By M40 – Sept, 2007

Quote, (note the points in bold): "I know the term "bush knife" has come to signify a blade about 4-6" in length and about an inch to 2" wide. Many have stag or hardwood handles, and some even sport really beautiful craftsmanship. I'm not sure just how and why these came into fashion or how folks came to think that these had any place in an outdoors environment. The design falls FAR short of what an outdoors blade should be. I've seen pocket knives that sport bigger and more functional blades.

These are skinners maybe, but definitely not choppers (the primary task of an outdoors blade). Oddly enough, there's very little whittling to be done in most wilderness survival situations. If the size and weight of these "bush" knives appeals to you, you really should consider packing a decent folder or a multi-tool instead. A multi-tool has a lot more to offer in the way of tools you can actually use.

A true bush blade (as I would make it) is a chopping machine. It's a large bowie or kukri style blade with a weight-forward balance that makes short work of brush and limbs. It's a one-tool carpentry shop that can whip up a shelter on short notice when the weather rolls in.

To sum up, I'd rather see someone tackle the outdoors with a $15 Ontario mil-spec machete than any of those really expensive and pretty "bush" blades."


Unless that is, you want to spend a huge amount of effort using a tiny blade that will dull in the blink of an eye because it is so small and overworked...

Gaston
You've almost offered that exact opposite of what I would have recommended. Correct me if I'm wrong. Are you advocating a 10" hollow grind with no tang for a multi use, hard use, chopper?
 
I believe they should be 6-7 inches. But that's just me. Most of what I have in that area include my Cold Steel SRK (old model) and my newly bought Busse TGLB. Of course I've heard some good things about shorter blades such as the Esee Izula. The SRK really excels in batoning and such. Great Price too!!
 
I have to say, this quote left me a bit floored! Different strokes for different folks and all, but this is the sized knife recommended by oh, just Ray Mears and Mors Kochanski. A couple of young upstarts who might know a bit about the subject :D

Quote, (note the points in bold): "I know the term "bush knife" has come to signify a blade about 4-6" in length and about an inch to 2" wide. Many have stag or hardwood handles, and some even sport really beautiful craftsmanship. I'm not sure just how and why these came into fashion or how folks came to think that these had any place in an outdoors environment. The design falls FAR short of what an outdoors blade should be. I've seen pocket knives that sport bigger and more functional blades.

These are skinners maybe, but definitely not choppers (the primary task of an outdoors blade). Oddly enough, there's very little whittling to be done in most wilderness survival situations. If the size and weight of these "bush" knives appeals to you, you really should consider packing a decent folder or a multi-tool instead. A multi-tool has a lot more to offer in the way of tools you can actually use./Quote


I have no argument against larger blades, but I am not sure why knives meant for the woods or "survival" have to be giant choppers.
 
I have the USMC kabar (a few of them actually) a bk 2, 7 & 9. I tend to favor the bk7 the most. It's sort of a jack of all trades but master of none. It does everything well but not awesome, which is fine by me. But I agree with a lot of posters on here that it's very subjective. Buy a variety of blades and see what works for you.
 
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You've almost offered that exact opposite of what I would have recommended. Correct me if I'm wrong. Are you advocating a 10" hollow grind with no tang for a multi use, hard use, chopper?

No I don't advocate a "Hollow grind". I do advocate hollow handles because they are wider, and more rounded, at the thumb-forefinger web area, so they transfer the arm's weight much better when "chopping rigid" (which chops a bit harder than "swinging" to hit mid-blade, but requires chopping close to the guard) and they can chop quite a bit harder as a result...: Flat ground blades combine much better with hollow handles, because tall hollow grinds unfortunately have a tendency to "roll" (or "glance"), and this combines poorly with a round handle....: Otherwise a thin hollow grind would be slightly better for chopping than a flat grind, especially taking into account re-sharpening ease.

The thin hollow grind is why the Randall Model 12 below easily outmatches the larger convex Trailmaster, and it would also be slightly better than an equivalent size flat grind as well... Here the Lile "Mission" transfers more force mostly because of the thicker profile tube handle, since it weights less than the Randall...

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As for the short tang... Well a short tang, just like a short blade, is much harder to break than a long piece, and can't vibrate itself to pieces, but of course everything depends on how well the tube is connected to it... Most high end hollow handles have few or no recorded separations...

The worst for chopping is of course the full tang design, since there is no absorption at all of any shock or vibrations to the hand... It also adds a lot of weight in the wrong place... My BK-9 performed a little better than the Trailmaster, but not much, and was horribly uncomfortable to use because of all the vibrations in the handle... Even the horribly thin Trailmaster handle was better than that, for comfort at least... I find it amazing people actually think BK-9s (or the Trailmaster for that matter) are good choppers...

My best chopper ever is the RJ Martin "Blackbird", which does combine a hollow grind with a round handle, but it taught me a flat grind is better with round handles: Yes it did beat everything (being bigger it should), but if the grind encourages rolling into the wood, that rolling/glancing action can cause a wire edge to appear, so the rolling can actually damage the edge: This never happens with the Lile because of its flat grind, and this is why I think hollow handles should be flat ground.

This by the way is about the same performance as my hatchet for not much more weight, but that knife is still a bit too heavy, at over 50% more than the Lile Mission...

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Gaston
 
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So can we agree then that what constitutes a good "survival" knife varies WILDLY depending on who you ask and the sort of surviving they plan on doing?

I was poking around an old farm many years ago up in the frozen north. Interesting place. Simple people had lived there who had been too busy trying to make ends meet to spend much time modernizing the place. It was essentially a working farm where not a lot had changed in the past 100 years. No electric, no running water, no refrigeration. A fixed point in time as the world around it changed. The people who lived there back in the day were self sufficient and definitely "surviving" but I did not find a single large chopper among the rusted out tools.

I found other things. I found the collars for the horses they had used to pull the logs out of the forest and the heads of carpentry axes used to shape them for the house. I found big two handed draw knives and countless saw blades. There were other old axe heads in different weights and sizes. Hand axes for small work and big axes for splitting. There were plows, carts, and sleds. Milk jugs and containers. Chisels and woodworking blades. Hammers and nails. Files and milling stones. And a great many more things required to live the life of a pre-industrial farmer who does everything himself.

They placed value on a good roof, a deep larder, an ample wood store, and a good crop destined for market. Everything they did was a means to an end. A means of survival. The original settlers were there because it was a prestigious occupation that kept the whole village in porridge. As the years wore on the people who stayed were the misfits or the fiercely independent.

It got me to thinking about the cost of freedom. It is a common dream to be free of your fellow man. Until you get a good look at what is involved. It almost cured me of my pioneer fantasies. :o

Anyways.... I've posted earlier in other parts of the forums, Some gear lessons from a guy who spent a few winters in alaska trapping, but it might be an interesting read for those who have not seen it. https://survivalblog.com/letter_re_grub_and_gearlessons/ Even if you aren't settling, there is a great deal involved.

There is nothing simplistic or minimalistic about going primitive. It certainly can't be simplified down to a choice between a 4 or 6 inch knife. Not if you want to maintain any level of comfort. And any kind of survival kit you might put together is going to be a kit to tide you over long enough get back to civilization or for the purpose of screwing around in the woods. :D

I'm rambling. The answer to the original question is YES. Bring a knife.
 
The bare minimum in my book is 4-4.5 inches of blade. The Bravo-1 is one of my all-time favorite "One Tool Options" (4.25", full tang, several steel choices, excellent sheath, and matching firesteels are available).

Here are a few examples of mine:









There are good reasons that it's Bark River's best selling model!
 
I have no clue how long a good survival knife should be. I am on a limited budget and I am debating whether I should get the schrade schf36 (5 inches) or schf37 (7 inches). I would be doing light - medium chopping and batoning as well as some general bushcraft (notches, making feather sticks...etc). I like the portability of the schf36 but I don't want to be limited with what I can do. Any suggestions?

Thanks


Survival knife for what exactly?

What do you plan on doing that might put you into a survival situation and where would this so called place be?

What is your personal definition of a survival situation?

Most any knife is better than fingernails however.

Just to let people know I am a sceptic on this whole survival thing, I am EX Military and carried a Ka-Bar.
 
Many variables here. I'm a firm believer that you dance with who you brung, that being the case I think a survival knife is the one your carrying. In the woods of the northeast I crry a 4.5 inch fixed blade. In many areas here I could build a shelter without a knife at all due to the downed wood and debre. If I were in the pacific northwest or southeast id want something bigger.

When in the woods I carry my fixed blade on my belt, if its on the pack its too easy to separated.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike.
 
Just to let people know I am a sceptic on this whole survival thing, I am EX Military and carried a Ka-Bar.

I am not ex-military...I'm just a guy who likes to run off into the woods, who possesses almost zero sense of direction.
I can get lost really effectively. :D

My survival situation would likely involve getting lost, and having to survive for a few days or so till someone came to find my dumb ass.
As such, it would more about shelter, fire, and just basically passing the time.

I could invent a situation that involves a broken leg, fabricating a splint and a crutch, and digging a well for water, but the reality is more likely just getting lost.
 
Or I guess it might involve knocking that annoying vegetation out of my way...
One of my happiest days involved the moment I realized I was lost.
I had gone out for adventure, and here it was. :thumbup:

I had my tiny compass, and had luckily taken a bearing on the way in, so I knew to head northwest.
I simply bashed and cut all the stupid vegetation out of my way, and got back to the main trail; part of getting lost involved trying to locate the secondary trail I had left when I decided to chase a deer through the woods.
A deer that I did not catch, as it turns out they're way faster than me. :D

So yeah, my survival situation will be triggered by my own stupidity, most likely.
(Dr. Phil would be so proud of how I just took ownership of my stupidity :) )
 
I typically carry between a 4 and 6" blade.

I do have a kukri, but that thing gets heavy. Its great when I want to do a lot of limbing, perfect for that in fact.

But it's not a very good option when I'm looking to drop pack weight.
 
I have no clue how long a good survival knife should be. I am on a limited budget and I am debating whether I should get the schrade schf36 (5 inches) or schf37 (7 inches). I would be doing light - medium chopping and batoning as well as some general bushcraft (notches, making feather sticks...etc). I like the portability of the schf36 but I don't want to be limited with what I can do. Any suggestions?

Thanks

Dude get the schf37

If it too unwieldy, buy a Mora companion to go with it.

Then go use it and have fun :)
 
There's no answer to how long it should be, only how long it will be, which is the length of the one you have on you.
Make sure you always have one.
 
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