how long until a knife becomes a short sword

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Romeo Sellspear

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Jul 1, 2019
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I have always wondered how long a knife can be before it is considered a short sword. I was also curious about how long a bowie knife should be. I had heard it should be as long as the owners forearm. Because if that's the case I could use some help finding one that's 21 inches long. Thanks for the help
 
I think it is based on intention as much as length. Every sword has but one purpose. Knives in general have many purposes. Some swords are considered big knives and were usually what poorer soldiers used. Usually minimal or no hand protection and resemble farm tools in shape.

Small swords usually have developed and intricate hand protection and generally wouldn't be that useful as a farm tool.

So yah length alone is an insufficient criteria.
 
Its what you call it. Call it "Captain McStabbypants" and it might well be a sword, call it "Bringer of Vine-Doom" and its a machete. Go with what feels right, someone may argue the point, but in all likely-hood, most people will understand at least what you were getting at. There are some swords that are not terribly long, they certainly won't do well at bushcraft, so they cannot be knives. See BF rules 109.5.6.
 
I think it has to do with purpose. I look at something like the Japanese Tanto with a 12" blade as a short sword. A Tramontina with a 12" blade is a machete. A khukuri with a 12" blade is a chopping knife.

The Tanto has been designed as a super short sword designed to offer defensive capabilities in tight quarters. It can cut and slash and most likely would not be something you would choose to do manual labor with given its build. I also don't see it as a dagger as it isn't designed for mostly thrusting.

A Tram is obviously a machete. Designed for brush and to be wanged into all manner of jungle material. Even with a 24" blade it wouldn't be a sword.

A 12" blade khuk is still a chopping knife. Even one made thin and sleek for more martial use still is at its root a chopping knife.

I guess its all semantics, though. I wouldn't argue with what you call it if you hit me with any of them.
 
Id say design matters as much as length. A machete is long enough to be a short sword, but the flat thin blade designed for cutting brush out groups it from swords to me.
 
Context is what determines it. But generally, short swords start at about the 20", sometimes as short as 18". Anything shorter than that is typically considered a big knife at best. Even bronze swords were of that length or greater.
 
D Guard Bowies were used as knives, swords, machetes, and also digging implements in the American Civil War. Many were as large as cutlasses, some just large knives. It was a continuous spectrum.

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So I did a little bit of research and found a German sword called the Grosse Messer which translate to "big knife". After finding this out I about died laughing because I had just posted something on the topic.
 
Romeo Sellspear said:
So I did a little bit of research and found a German sword called the Grosse Messer which translate to "big knife". After finding this out I about died laughing because I had just posted something on the topic.
Click to expand...

There was a "Langes Messer" (Long Knife) and a "Großes Messer" (Big Knife), the term Messer was most likely in relation to the person making it, since Knifemakers were different from Swordmakers. Comparable to say somebody today working as a Gunsmith vs somebody in the Self Defense Market. Certain people being allowed to work in certain fields/catering to a certain market and using the term knife vs sword allowed more people to get into that market.
 
21” forearms? Do your knuckles drag on the ground? Wow.

As for what you’re asking, it has mostly to do with the design. I’ve seen some pretty short blades I’d call short swords simply due to the design.
 
I recall asking this very question on this site 20 years ago. While in general we can say that knives are not swords, there is no specific agreed upon characteristic, such as length, that would classify an item as one or the other. Historically and culturally, terms like short sword or long knife have been used to describe either. Whether something is the one or the other comes down to the common conventional usage of the language. Hence a khukuri or Khyber is a "knife", even when it is sword length, while a tanto is a sword irrespective of length. When we say that something is sword-like, we mean that it's appearance and dimensions would fall into what most people generally think of as a sword, but it shouldn't be taken any more seriously than that.

n2s
 
:) I'm going WAY out on the limb here and suggest that there is NO consensus on the issue ! :rolleyes:

Most of these distinctions between tool and weapon are fairly arbitrary and must be understood in context . Let alone exact length specs .

The lowly machete has historically been used many times as a weapon of the working poor , non-military or aristocratic classes . So wasn't it being used as a sword ? :confused:

Whereas , purpose build swords have been pressed into use as machetes many times, of survival necessity . :eek:

My favorite weedwacking "machete" is actually a katana ! It works great . :cool::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Culture and context, the great dividers of consensus. My WWII Kyo Gunto is as short as some machetes and bayonets but comparable to many 17h and 18h century smallswords. The Kyo Gunto is a sword, for sure. So are the smallswords. But the bayonets that size just don't feel like swords.

Culture and context.

Zieg
 
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