how many hours?

B

Billbo66

Joined
Nov 19, 2008
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248
So...I would like to know how many hours on average a maker might spend on a knife- start to finish. The reason is, from a buyers point of view, I am trying to get some perspective on prices to justify good quality, hand made knives. If it takes 20 hours to make a knife that sells for 200, that's $10 an hour, which is a hellova deal for the buyer, given the cost of materials and tools.
 
It's not the amount of hours it takes a maker to produce a knife that determines quality. It's the skill of the maker. Two makers can make the same knife, with one maker taking 50 hours and the other taking 5 hours. The maker who takes 5 hours may be much more skilled and produce a knife of much higher quality.

I tell customers that my knives take anywhere from 5 hours to 50 hours to make, depending on the complexity of a particular knife.
 
Your question is not as easy to answer as you might think.
Some makers can make a $200.- knife in 10 hrs. Some in 20hrs.
I think to help answer your question you should look into how certain knives are made and how a maker makes his/her knives.
Good luck on your quest.
Mace
 
I had a collector once ask me at a show, how long did it take to make the knife?
I told him I did NOT know?
He said that is why they look like they do..... :)

It takes as long as it takes, and than sometimes ya screw up.....:eek:
And you start completely over.... :mad: :)

Take care.

Todd
 
the size of knife will matter too. $200. can buy a fixed blade or folder depending on who makes it.
 
My first knives took a very long time to make. Now, I can make a blade in half the time and I'm still improving. The quality is improving, too.

I think that most makers make very little per-hour. Only the fact that they enjoy those hours makes them continue to make knives.
 
firebert said:
I think that most makers make very little per-hour.
Click to expand...

They make even less sitting on the couch watching TV.

Is knifemaking a hobby, a job or a business venture? For me it's a hobby; I like knives and I'm cheap so making the knives that I like and want to collect is great. Once I have enough knives maybe I will sell some :)

The answer to your question is: Time is relative.

How much should you sell your knives for? Well I'll tell you a story about these book makers in Vegas that set odds and spread for the superbowl games... now the whole purpose of the spread is so that the book makers get even numbers and dollars bet on both teams, so, they release the odds and spread to a select audience to test the waters and see how much is bet on whom. If the bets aren't even, they do a quick analysis and figure out where they have to move the spread in order to get even bets then they release the spread to the mass market.

Moral of the story, put a price on a knife and advertise it, if it gets snapped up in 4 minutes, the price may be low, if it doesn't sell in two months the price may be high.
 
It really depends on the knife, but when you first start off, it takes a LONG time. Even when you get really good, some can still take a long time if they are more complicated knife designs or you do something like a 2000 grit hand finish.
 
Well said, gents. The fact that almost any maker on this forum can make a fine knife more quickly than I can sure doesn't mean their time/work is worth less.
 
jdm61 said:
It really depends on the knife, but when you first start off, it takes a LONG time. Even when you get really good, some can still take a long time if they are more complicated knife designs or you do something like a 2000 grit hand finish.
Click to expand...

Heck, I do a lot of mustard patinas and I always take them to at least a 1500 grit finish before applying the mustard. Whenever you put any kind of patina on a knife or etch it, it'll show every little scratch. It can take me 4 or 5 hours to hand finish a knife to 1500 grit. Then it takes all day to apply the mustard over and over and over and over, until it looks "just right".

As stated, it's a very complex question, and probably doesn't have a straight forward answer to it. Probably the only person that would be able to answer this question, is a maker that makes the same styles over and over and has a system set up to make it sort of like an assembly line. I make one offs every time, so when I start a knife, I have no idea how much time it will actually take. As far as pricing a knife, I don't really put too much emphasis on how much time it took me to make the knife. Maybe I should, but I try to price them so that most people would find the price fair (not too expensive, but too inexpensive either). Luckily, I have a day job, so if a knife doesn't sell, because I priced it too high, it's know big deal. I'll just lower the price until I find a price that the buyers find to be fair for that knife.
 
Well, I could make a $200 knife in a few hours. Yet I choose to make a thousand dollar knife and spend weeks and weeks on it. :D Never said I was smart! :)

Don't forget materials costs. Even if you use all found materials (something I DON'T do) you'll be paying for tooling and electricity.
 
I'm a simple guy and with only 2,5 knives under my belt I'd have to say.....I don't know. My last one took somewhere around 30 or so hours I think. My first one a LOT longer and the one I'm working on now has around 10 hours in it and I might be able to finish it in that the same amount of time this time.
 
Well, I do keep track of my time and materials cost on every knife (except for depreciation and utilities; I'd have those anyway because I like to make stuff regardless whether I get paid. ;)).

So I know how many hours I have in every knife, and that is on average about 26. Most of my knives sell in the $250-$300 range, with materials/supplies cost around $40-$80. Abrasives are the hardest expense to swallow, and the best money a maker can spend. I finally have determined a good way to track belt expense, which should help me stock enough to work efficiently. That's really rather difficult for me.

Usually I make about $7.50 per hour; I figure I hit my goal when I earn $10 per hour, which I do occasionally make. But not often. I work hard to improve my shop practice to be more efficient and my skills to make better finished knives. I probably do not charge enough because I can never keep knives around. :)

The first time I make a particular knife I have many hours in design; and the same goes for the sheath - you'd be surprised how long it takes to figure out a workable sheath and how many fail for one reason or another. As mentioned, after I've made a particular pattern a couple of times it speeds up - but never to the point they come out quickly.

I spend a lot of time on 3D handles - palm swell, etc. This is something that makes a huge difference between knives. A simply-shaped handle is a snap to make in a few minutes; I often spend 3 or 4 hours just getting the basic shape on a knife handle and a couple hours after that hand finishing it. With the right wheels and enough practice, such a handle might be roughed out in 20 or 30 minutes, but I've never gotten that down. Maybe some day.

Another thing that can take an inordinate about of time is tapering tangs. The first one must have taken five or six hours; eventually I got that down to half an hour. But because I'm trying for more precision, I find it's taking longer again. I'm sure that will even out eventually.

I think this is a good question for a collector to ask, and I thank you for asking it. Makers do this work because it's meaningful to them; as someone mentioned, if it wasn't satisfying then we wouldn't do it, because the hourly wage is quite low. But I figure it's better than flipping burgers or working in a call center, and so far it's tax free. :D
 
The more experience you have, the faster you'll make the same knife and probably with better results. You're not paying an experienced maker for the hours he's got in that current knife, you're paying for the pain and suffering from his crappy knives at the start :p Best way I heard it explained is this:

There's a local band that's really great, they've all been on big tours before and had major record deals. One night someone said to them, that's good pay for a night's work. Ziggy told the guy, "you're not paying me for tonight. You're paying me for all those nights I practiced in my room, you're paying me for those nights when I didn't go out with my friends and we practiced in the garage. You're not paying me for tonight, you're paying me for those years I spent learning to play like I did tonight."
 
Well said Will, after 5-6 years the building time dropped by 5-10 times but price tag I put a knife increased about %20-30. The knives I make getting better and better, so it is not related to the time at that point. A couple months ago I made a 8" kitchen knife at 2 hours (my record high so far) but it turned out great, better than my first kitchen knives I worked on them about a month....
 
The how long question has so many variables like...

what size, method of creation, tools on hand, complexity of pattern......

too many variables to put a standard timeframe out there. Make what you do and worry about making YOUR time more efficient.
 
Whenever I'm asked that question, the response is 25+ years. Thats not to be a smart@$$, its the truth. I've spent my entire knifemaking career learning, and each new knife brings with it a new set of circumstances, and its own unique set of challenges.
 
Ed Caffrey said:
Whenever I'm asked that question, the response is 25+ years. Thats not to be a smart@$$, its the truth. I've spent my entire knifemaking career learning, and each new knife brings with it a new set of circumstances, and its own unique set of challenges.
Click to expand...

Now there is a truth. Most of my knives I don't know. One of the factors is I seldom work on one knife from start to finish. I learn on every one though.
Another is the quality. If I set out to make 5 drop point user hunters and begin with profiles I had waterjet cut from a sheet of D2, I could have them done with about a 10 hour average, and the time is dropping. They would be good quality knives, but not perfect, they would each probably have some small cosmetic flaw. I can't spend the time for perfection for the price I will receive. I would try for it on each one though. My main reward would be the practice and experience. If I set out to make the exact same knife with handforged damascus ( I don't have a press YET) and then forge to shape, then grind and add bolsters or a guard the time would easily run over 40 hours and I would probably still have some small defects. A lot of it is practice and experience. When I go to making my 5 JS knives I imagine that they will each take at least 40 hours and I will probably reject several of the starts as they progress. I just spent a day at Nick's shop and I got a real clue as to the precision and time he puts into his collector quality knives. We never even got past getting a blade ready to HT, but they steps he went though to check for straight and centered where of the highest level, When I thought it was great he was still not satisfied. I am sure the same applies to fitting the hardware and the final finish. I bet he could make beautiful $200 guardless fulltang drop point hunter from flatstock in under 10 hours if he wanted too. I also bet a collector quality bowie of his takes at least 40 if not more and he has a top shelf tool selection.
 
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I haven't kept track but it is around 10-20 hrs easily to make each knife. Each one is getting better, and I feel I get it done a little faster than the last.
 
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