how many hours?

Ed Caffrey said:
Whenever I'm asked that question, the response is 25+ years. Thats not to be a smart@$$, its the truth. I've spent my entire knifemaking career learning, and each new knife brings with it a new set of circumstances, and its own unique set of challenges.
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Now there is a truth. Most of my knives I don't know. One of the factors is I seldom work on one knife from start to finish. I learn on every one though.
Another is the quality. If I set out to make 5 drop point user hunters and begin with profiles I had waterjet cut from a sheet of D2, I could have them done with about a 10 hour average, and the time is dropping. They would be good quality knives, but not probably have some small cosmetic flaws. I can't spend the time for perfection for the price I will receive. Maybe I should toss them, but, everyone I have sold one to is told about any flaw and all have been very satisfied for the price, to my knowledge. The defects are getting smaller and harder to notice. My main reward will still be the practice and experience. I doubt that will ever change. If I set out to make the exact same knife with handforged damascus ( I don't have a press YET) and forged to shape then ground and add bolsters or a guard the time could easily run over 40 hours. It would not be perfect either. I don't know if I will ever make a perfect knife. I will always try. When I go to making my 5 JS knives I imagine that they will each take at least 40 hours and I will probably reject several of the starts as they progress. I doubt I will throw them away as many will be very happy to have a knife that I regard as not quite there. They will still outshine a production knife. I just spent a day at Nick's shop and I got a real clue as to the precision and time he puts into his collector quality knives. We never even got past getting a blade ready to HT, but they steps he went though to check for straight and centered where of the highest level, I am sure the same applies to fitting the hardware and the final finish. I bet he could make $200 guardless a drop point hunter from flatstock in under 10 hours. I also bet a collector quality bowie of his takes at least 40 if not more and he has a top shelf tool selection.
 
I'm pretty new to the knife making game (23) knives to be exact. All of my knives have been fixed blades, with 16 being forged and 7 stock removal. I have been trying to learn and teach myself new things on each knife....its been around 2 and half years since I put out my first knife...stock removal. If you account for all of the internet searches on forums and makers sites, text reading (books, magazines), direct contact (email, phone) with more experienced makers, tool,equipment, and supply purchases (constant thing), and trial and error hours out in the cold/hot garage, then the hours mount up. Especially if you know that just to make the first few, most of the above had to be incorporated. If I want to improve my skills to a level that most would consider professional, I'm going to have to invest many, many more hours doing the same. For a new fellow like me, its real hard to total hours on an individual knife.

Hands on my time is much shorter toward what I currently call a finished product.....possibly 20-40 hours per blade. But in reality the whole game is much longer in the playing.
 
Will Leavitt said:
Ziggy told the guy, "you're not paying me for tonight. You're paying me for all those nights I practiced in my room, you're paying me for those nights when I didn't go out with my friends and we practiced in the garage. You're not paying me for tonight, you're paying me for those years I spent learning to play like I did tonight."
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As a former rockstar wannabe, I can totally back that up. He forgot to mention the hours upon hours booking gigs, making posters, loading/unloading amps, searching for deals on decent gear, etc. etc. The band game and the knife game have a lot in common; essentially, weeks of hard work for a fleeting moment of glory. The main differences being, in knifemaking you don't have to deal with 3-5 other yahoos, and hardly anyone shows you their boobs when you get it right. It's a trade-off ;)

Anyone who jumps into either business thinking they're going to get rich quick, is a fool.

I hope the OP isn't discouraged by our answers; it is a valid question and you gentlemen have shone a lot of light on the subject. :thumbup:
 
Wow, this thread has made me feel a bit better about things. I'm still slow compared to others, but it's not quite as bad as I thought it was. I hand filed my first blade from 1/4" 5160 and I'm pretty sure I had at least 100 hours in it (although I stopped thinking about it at some point along the way.) I've finished 4 total now and I now have a cheap belt grinder and forge/anvil, and each one has gotten subsequently faster and easier. If I can get down to 20'ish hours for a respectable knife some day, I will be thrilled!
 
I think I could get stuff done faster if I bead blasted every tool in the shop , shiny stuff distracts me ;) ADD and knifemaking dont mix.

it takes the exact amount of time to get it done , no less , usually a bit more.
 
John T Wylie Jr said:
I think I could get stuff done faster if I bead blasted every tool in the shop , shiny stuff distracts me ;) ADD and knifemaking dont mix.

it takes the exact amount of time to get it done , no less , usually a bit more.
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oooooooooooo...........I see my reflection..........nice....%$&$#....got my *&%^$ finger into the %$&* belt again....$%#@!....ooooooooooooo....is that bone I see?
 
The time it takes depends on the beginning! were do you start? do you make your own damascus, hammer,forgeflaten surface grinde. and were do you stop, its ok,its great , or each knife is the best it can be .
your the only one that can answer that
Lobodag
 
Will that was well said. I tournament fish and have spent thousands of hours learning how to subtract all the unproductive water in a few days before a tournament.Making a knife is the same. The first one was torture the next was better and in 10 days ive made 10 knives ready for heat treat. I would say it takes me 4hours to get ready for heat treat and 3 hours for a handle but im getting faster. I just cut ground and sanded a 6 1/2 inch blade with a hidden tang bowie but took me 5 hours but wow its pretty but not finished..
 
SCOTT thats funny i just read your post lmao I JUST HIT MY FINGER IN THE BELT AND WOW THAT HURTS . kellyw
 
I measure in weeks on some projects. You guys that count hours need to exercise patience. Dont worry about how long something takes, it will get done when its done. Its all "terret syndrome" therapy for me.
 
Well, I dunno Bruce. It's just my nature to analyze everything to the nth degree. :) I don't think it's a matter of impatience so much as organization. I constantly do time & motion studies on loading and unloading the dishwasher or folding and putting away the laundry too. And I drive 9 mph over the speed limit pretty much everywhere, because that's my observed "ticket threshold." There are only so many microseconds in the day, and I want to squeeze as much out of them as I can. :D Anyone who had a honey-do list like mine would have to find some kind of solution to get a few hours in the shop!

But I do agree that it will get done when it gets done. I never feel rushed to accomplish my work. I only wish to do it as efficiently as possible; blame business school. :D Or my Mom.
 
Bruce Bump said:
I measure in weeks on some projects. You guys that count hours need to exercise patience. Dont worry about how long something takes, it will get done when its done. Its all "terret syndrome" therapy for me.
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"I can feel my terret syndrome coming back.........chit.....dammm.......ssonnnofabitcccch"
 
I am somewhat like Dave. Not only do I study the time but, the effort to accomplish tasks. Loading the dishwasher strikes me as it is one of those things that a little effort on how you load it pays off on how easy and fast you can unload it. Some steps on jobs can not be rushed. Rushing them will even cause you to lose time and effort. Grinding and sanding can not be rushed. Fitting up the handle pieces is another. Kind of like an old driller told me when he was teaching me how to run a oil drilling rig. Benny Holt, "Don't try to be fast, just learn to be good and the speed will come all on its own." That has prove to be the case in everything I do.
 
There is no set amount of time about making a knife. Each knife is different and it does not pay to get in a hurry. When you start getting in a hurry terrible things can happen. The best approach to this is just focus on the stage that you are in and go from there. It may take many hours of work but one thing is for sure, your patients will payoff in the long run. :)

Terry
 
Bruce Bump said:
I measure in weeks on some projects. You guys that count hours need to exercise patience. Dont worry about how long something takes, it will get done when its done. Its all "terret syndrome" therapy for me.
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ROTFL! That one almost got by me Bruce. I did a quick search when it first dawned on me what you were talking about, figuring either you weren't sure about how to spell "Tourette" -- or you were talking about something I'd never heard of. Turns out that the syndrome goes by a few different names and spellings -- including "terret" or "terrets" syndrome.

There've been a few moments in front of the grinder when someone watching me might have thought I had Tourette's (TS).

From WebMD: "People with TS may involuntarily shout obscenities"...
 
Billbo66 said:
So...I would like to know how many hours on average a maker might spend on a knife- start to finish. The reason is, from a buyers point of view, I am trying to get some perspective on prices to justify good quality, hand made knives. If it takes 20 hours to make a knife that sells for 200, that's $10 an hour, which is a hellova deal for the buyer, given the cost of materials and tools.
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I don't think you can equate price of a custom knife to a simple equation of time, materials, and overhead. From the maker's standpoint, those things are important because if a knife is selling for less than that sum, then yes, it is a heck of a deal for a buyer, but that maker is slowly going out of business!

The price of a knife will also reflect a maker's popularity/demand, style of knife, etc. A monetary value is put on intrinsic characteristics that can fluctuate with the market.

For example:

Try telling Bob Loveless that you'll pay him $80 an hour plus cost of materials to build you a knife, and see how fast he hangs up on you. :D
 
Mr Caffrey: That was pretty much the same answer that my friend and mentor Jim H said..I asked him how long it took him to make what he calls a medium sized knife and he answered back 40 years so far and counting.

He also said that he is making the same things he did as when he started, he just got faster and better at it.

I do know from hanging around him that organization is essential. Everything in his shop is pretty much right at hand. He can make a really decent knife out of a railroad spike in 15 minutes from start to finish. I watched him do it. The way he heat treats them they even hold a decent edge. Not as good as his usual stuff but still they do stay sharp for a decent length of time.

He doesn't waste much time at all. Just watching someone who's been doing something for many many years is probaby the best way to see how it's done. At least I think so. I do know that I have picked up a lot from Jim and continue to do so every time I go over to his place...

Right now I am still on the "long and slow" end of things but even now, after puttering around with this stuff I can see I am getting a little bit faster and I am getting better. So getting help and pointers does help...

Jason...
 
I actually kept track once of time and materials, includeing belts sandpaper etchant. Then took the price I sold the knife at and figured my profit. It was so depressing I just decided to never do it again and just enjoy making knives. I don't know many if any makers that are in it for the money.
 
A customer picked up one of my knives at a show a few weeks ago and asked "How long did it take you to make a knife like this" I told him ABOUT 25 YEARS
 
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