Yes of course. I guess I’m tiredRH = Rockwell Hardness.............I think
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How many SS blades per foil pack for HT?
- Thread starter LCoop
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I also think that's what he meant. Isn't Rockwell Hardness normally abbreviated as Rc, for Rockwell C scale?RH = Rockwell Hardness.............I think
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One blade per pouch for us. There are to many other variables to deal with then trying to make sure the blades perfectly stack, don't shift or weld to each other. The price of foil is minimal in the grand scheme of things and we go through a 20”x100ft roll about every 2 months. I could see getting away with possibly 2 stacked blades as thy both have plate contact but a 3rd in the middle seams to be asking for issues.
Yes RH was shortened to mean Rockwell Hardness. I just assumed knife makers would understand RH. Like I said I've got a bunch of AEB-L to heat treat tomorrow. I'm going to do a test. One per SS foil. Two per foil pack. And 3 per pack. I will engrave the 3 pack as 1,2 and 3 to see if there's difference. Like I said I've done it before and they all turned out great. But I've had ONE failure but I'm thinking it was because of lag time till I did the cold treatment. Maybe as HSC suggested maybe a longer soak time. Thanks for all the input! I can always count on honest input from this forum. I've learned a ton from this forum with all the experienced posters who graciously post their knowledge. Thanks.
But I beg to differ SS foil wrap is expensive. Maybe you get a discount because of the volume you buy. Good for you. But to a hobby maker foil isn't cheap and it has to be considered in the price for sale or give away.
But I beg to differ SS foil wrap is expensive. Maybe you get a discount because of the volume you buy. Good for you. But to a hobby maker foil isn't cheap and it has to be considered in the price for sale or give away.
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A roll is around $300 and good for at least 300 blades minimum so about a buck an envelope. When you count the price of steel, cryo, scales, epoxy, belts, and time a buck for foil is really not a huge factor in the outcome of profit. I’m not saying $300 is cheep but it will last a min individual a very long time.
Stacking works nicely for thin stock from my experience. I do stacked some D2 and N695 several times with flying color. For steel that prone to warp like thin AEB-L I would rather use protection paint like Condursal Z1100 instead since I can suddenly notice any warpage out the plate quench and straighten if need.
Well I did some testing during my HT yesterday. I stacked 3 identical profiled unground blades of .60 AEB-L and engraved them 1,2 and 3 on the handles. With 2 being the center blade. I added 2 minutes to my normal HT. Plated quenched then cold treatment with dry ice. The center blade came out .5 lower in Rockwell hardness. I also did some small chef knives .90 identical profile unground AEB-L. I put two to a foil pack with remaining knives one to a pack. Same HT with only the normal minuet differences in Rockwell hardness with single wrapped versus double wrapped.
I am happy with the results but what I'm most happy about is that with my homemade carbide hammer I was able to straighten the few slightly warped blades with it! My homemade carbide hammer was made from the cheapest small claw hammer with a wooden handle I could buy. I used a angle grinder to grind off the claws and rounded them over. I cut the wooden handle off at base of hammer head. A little torch time and wood came out and I saved the wedges. I annealed the hammer head and then drilled a 1/4" hole in the flat of the hammer. I cut a carbide 1/4" Boush carbide drill bit to the proper length with my dremel and also rounded the end of the carbide bit with it. I then JB welded it in the hammer. I was worried since the area of the bit JB welded in hammer head was fluted it would not glue up and last. I used the belt sander to reshaped wooden handle to fit back in hammer head. So far it's held up perfectly and worked awesome!
I am happy with the results but what I'm most happy about is that with my homemade carbide hammer I was able to straighten the few slightly warped blades with it! My homemade carbide hammer was made from the cheapest small claw hammer with a wooden handle I could buy. I used a angle grinder to grind off the claws and rounded them over. I cut the wooden handle off at base of hammer head. A little torch time and wood came out and I saved the wedges. I annealed the hammer head and then drilled a 1/4" hole in the flat of the hammer. I cut a carbide 1/4" Boush carbide drill bit to the proper length with my dremel and also rounded the end of the carbide bit with it. I then JB welded it in the hammer. I was worried since the area of the bit JB welded in hammer head was fluted it would not glue up and last. I used the belt sander to reshaped wooden handle to fit back in hammer head. So far it's held up perfectly and worked awesome!
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Thanks for reporting the test results, that's pretty encouraging.
A carbide tipped straightening hammer is amazing. Since I built one, I almost want the blades to warp so I can use it. Well, almost. Why didn't you just drill the hammer head with the carbide bit instead of annealing it?
I guess I should have been more specific once again. I don't have a true carbide bit. I used a 1/4" masonry hammer drill bit that has a carbide tip. Unlike others I've never had any luck using a carbide masonry drill bit to drill hardened metal. It was way easier to anneal the hammer head for me.
I don't stack my blades because of the cost of the foil.... I do it because it's more time and cost effective to get 2, 3 or even 6 blades per furnace cycle.
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Sounds like you need a bigger oven and more quench plate set ups lol
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Your drill (like mine) probably doesn't have enough rpm or power to do it, some also say that you should sharpen the masonry bits.
I wanted to do the hammer exactly like that, I will try using a 1/2" masonry bit as a straightening chisel in the mean time.. There is also light weight hammers with carbide tips for breaking tiles that I wanted to try..
I guess I don’t understand how that would help me so please explain...Sounds like you need a bigger oven and more quench plate set ups lol
if I have a given time, Let’s say one hour for a furnace cycle, quench and into liquid nitrogen, why wouldn’t I try to get as many blades as I could during that time? If there are no detrimental effects.
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He means you could wrap each blade individually and still put multiple blades in one oven during one heat treat. Wrapping each one individually wouldn’t decrease the number you could do at once.
Yeah I figured. Just didn’t want to assume. Yeah I’ll pass on that. I’m good stacking the blades or putting them side by side. I see no benefit to having to pull out multiple packets and put them on a quench plate.
All I can say is foil cost money. Heat treat oven costs money to run. The time it takes to wrap one blade or two is the same. If the results are the same I can't imagine not doing it. I don't know I'm just a hobbyist at this point but if I can save time or money to make knives it makes sense to me.
So with JT analyze he buys $300 worth of foil. He gets 300 knives. So with that same $300 he could HT 600 knives with the same time of paying electric for HT oven operating. Which has a life span. Why wouldn't you double your productively if the results was the same? It has no bearing the size of your HT oven or quench plates in my simple mind.
So with JT analyze he buys $300 worth of foil. He gets 300 knives. So with that same $300 he could HT 600 knives with the same time of paying electric for HT oven operating. Which has a life span. Why wouldn't you double your productively if the results was the same? It has no bearing the size of your HT oven or quench plates in my simple mind.
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Why is it that when a knife maker wants to save time and/or money they start with heat treating. They try to eliminate foil, or dry ice, or liquid nitrogen, or the correct quench oil, or a proper furnace, or essential steps etc....
I believe in part it’s due to the fact that you can’t see the heat treatment, you can’t hide a poor finish or low quality materials.
If you want to save time and money then hire a professional to do the heat treating for you.
Forged in Fire has created a whole generation of knife makers that think they can heat treat out of a forge and check the hardness with a file.
Even if it takes more time and money, do the very best heat treatment you can, it will pay off in the long run.
Hoss
I believe in part it’s due to the fact that you can’t see the heat treatment, you can’t hide a poor finish or low quality materials.
If you want to save time and money then hire a professional to do the heat treating for you.
Forged in Fire has created a whole generation of knife makers that think they can heat treat out of a forge and check the hardness with a file.
Even if it takes more time and money, do the very best heat treatment you can, it will pay off in the long run.
Hoss
Britt_Askew
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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But the results are not always the same. this is from post 10-
I just finished profiled only 9" chef blades by stacking 3 of them using Hoss's HT'ing recommendation of soaking at 1725°F for 20 minutes, then 10 minute soak at 1925°F and plate quenching, then overnight in LN. After tempering at 350F the blades are 63 Rc, 60 Rc, and 59 Rc.