How much knife do we really need ?

[coote]

Yep Ramil, I reckon one of those curvy, toothed blades would work well in a cordage emergency. A man should own one I suppose. If there was a choice of blade length, I'd go for the longest to give me a longer 'saw stroke' and greater reach (across a big rope or in behind a boat propeller for instance).

Although opinions and circumstances may differ, I couldn't imagine not having a knife near me at all times. (I also am gobsmacked at kids who won't take a jacket or raincoat to school in bad weather, and people who head out on long car/boat journeys without checking their engine oil or water etc.)

My first recollection of being 'the dude with the knife' was when my dad stopped to fish from the shore at a place that was a stop-off on a long trip we were making. I might have only been five or six years old. He caught fish, but he had nothing to gut them with (duh). Maybe he knew that I had a pocket knife. it was just a cheapie with thin metal scales and it had fallen through a hole in my pocket and was sitting between the outer fabric and the lining of the woollen short pants my grandma had made me. But at least I had a knife and the fish got gutted.

I think I've told this story here before, but it was probably a while ago. When I was working as a metalworking fitter, I sometimes helped to install ventilation ducts. This would entail working with thin galvanised sheet steel ducting. Sometimes we'd need to cut a hole in the side of a large duct to attach another duct branching off to the side. To make such an opening (maybe ten inches in diameter) a small hole would have to be made so that we could fit the nose of our hand shears into the hole to cut the bigger circle. When you are up a ladder or climbing around in a roof space, it isn't always convenient to have an electric drill fitted with hole saw to start the operation. So I started using my pocket knife. We'd hammer the poor blade through the steel by striking the base of the handle, then hammer the back of the blade (baton it) to form a cross. We'd then force the shear blades into the hole we just made. The knives I used to carry most back then were the wonderful Mercator lock back knives. I think I may have broken one blade, but it sure did some good work for us. My boss used to borrow the knife for the same job and other things as necessary.

I recall seeing these knives for sale for NZ$0.95 when I was a teenager. Now they are about forty bucks. I should have bought a box of them.

Here are a couple of surviving Mercators:

Just a few days ago I attended a workshop on building a backyard biodigester (to quickly break down your kitchen and garden waste and create methane gas as a useful by-product). About 25 people attended the workshop. At one stage the top needed to be cut out of a plastic tank. The lid was ribbed and it was difficult to cut past the ribs with an electric jigsaw. When I've done similar jobs, I've sometimes batoned a knife through the plastic... and it has worked well. I had a small knife with me, so I thought I'd show these people a thing or two about how useful a knife can be. The knife I had is pictured below. It has a fixed blade of just over 2.5 inches and the sheath is made from squashed polythene pipe. Anyway with a great flourish I drew my knife from my jacket pocket and triumphantly pulled it out of the sheath - and accidentally made a small slice in the side of my palm.... which started to bleed quite impressively. I tried to hide this part of the demonstration and fortunately nobody seemed to notice the blood...or they were too polite to mention it.

The knife worked well though, and performed as expected. I also used it later on to cut some polythene pipe when the usual cutter had been misplaced. I made this particular knife during a stage in my life when I was exploring our cultural roots. The handle is based on the karda knives found accompanying some kukris, and the blade is my interpretation of a short seax. This blade shape has proven to be very useful. The blade was cut from an old sawmill bandsaw and seems to be fairly tough... and possibly a little softer than I'd like. But it works well enough.

 

[upnorth]

Even more extreme would be a situation of winter camping. The time I went out with Rick last year he punched through the ice in a marshy area and soaked his boots and leg up to mid-shin or so. This happened around noon or so. We had to return to camp ASAP (about 40 min walk back), build a decent fire to allow him to dry off all his gear and dry out his boot liners. This is kind of an important thing to do because the temperature was going to drop to -20F that night. Fortunately we had an 18" take down buck saw and axe to help us along. It took a lot of wood and big wood (8" rounds quartered up) to get his gear all dried up. In winter, darkness falls at about 5:00 pm. That meant we had about 4 h to secure all our wood for Rick's sake as well as serve the rest of the night. Honestly, you can't dick around this situation without the right tools. Three guys with little knives would have been a disaster no matter how many skills you possess. Some situations demand you be prepared and if wood preparation is integral to being prepared, then I'm going to want the tools to do it.

Amen. I"ve started fires in the dead of winter at Lake Athabasca and those experiences have always stayed with me. The realization that my fingers were going knumb within minutes and that I REALLY could die made everything crystal clear. Frighteningly clear.

 

[collecter]

I was comforted by the fact that I had a 6" knife with me. I know that is a fairly ridiculous thought, maybe 'emotion' is a better word (and a 12" Bowie would have been even better ), nevertheless, I was glad I had that big knife with me.

I can appreciate this and it's something I consider as well. My comfort knife is my kabar. I just tecently got a new leather tanto version that I modified similar to my old Kabar. I don't know how to post a pic from my ipad otherwise I do so. I chopped the top guard and convexed the edge. It cuts wood well, not like a scandi but well enough to satisfy needs. If I'm not carrying a pistol I'll most likely have my kabar on my belt.

I don't carry a multi-tool just my vic pioneer on a string attached to my belt for insurance.

 

[Moosez45]

I'm really into the 5" blade range right now. I find it big enough for what I need, and small enough to tote. I've gotten by on a neck knife (BK14) before, and usually have something like that with me, I practice with it, so, if I am in a tough spot, learning the skills and how to use it, has already been done.

I like my big choppers, and in a tough spot, I want the biggest knife I can manage, say, 9" blade. Finding that happy medium is where I am at.

On a recent trout fishing trip, we had to name a section of river that we fish, river of cold fires. After 5 days of straight, soaking rain, even the standing dead was wet. We didn't "need" the fire, we wanted one. Mainly for the spirit building and to dry out our gear. So, after 2 hours of effort, we finally had a fire going, but it was a "cold" fire, giving off little to no heat or cheer. And after an hour or two, it was out, completely with no coals to speak of.

Had it been a necessity, say, colder weather and wet from the wading, we could have been in some trouble. Plus, I like brewing tea on my breaks, which made it even less fun.

Its nice to get these little reminders when it warm and comfy outside, as opposed to being in dire need, and having to deal with it. Would a larger knife have helped? Not in this scenario, we had knives of comparable size, and heft, but there was just nothing dry enough to get rolling. The fire had a hard enough time drying out what it was fed, and burning what it had, but we did have a couple of hours of warmth and light.

Just my thoughts, gimme a 5" medium size blade, like the BK16, RMK 5-5, Spartan Nyx, or Fallkniven S1 and I'm good to go.

Moose

 

[upnorth]

I'm really into the 5" blade range right now. I find it big enough for what I need, and small enough to tote. I've gotten by on a neck knife (BK14) before, and usually have something like that with me, I practice with it, so, if I am in a tough spot, learning the skills and how to use it, has already been done.

I like my big choppers, and in a tough spot, I want the biggest knife I can manage, say, 9" blade. Finding that happy medium is where I am at.

On a recent trout fishing trip, we had to name a section of river that we fish, river of cold fires. After 5 days of straight, soaking rain, even the standing dead was wet. We didn't "need" the fire, we wanted one. Mainly for the spirit building and to dry out our gear. So, after 2 hours of effort, we finally had a fire going, but it was a "cold" fire, giving off little to no heat or cheer. And after an hour or two, it was out, completely with no coals to speak of.

Had it been a necessity, say, colder weather and wet from the wading, we could have been in some trouble. Plus, I like brewing tea on my breaks, which made it even less fun.

Its nice to get these little reminders when it warm and comfy outside, as opposed to being in dire need, and having to deal with it. Would a larger knife have helped? Not in this scenario, we had knives of comparable size, and heft, but there was just nothing dry enough to get rolling. The fire had a hard enough time drying out what it was fed, and burning what it had, but we did have a couple of hours of warmth and light.

Just my thoughts, gimme a 5" medium size blade, like the BK16, RMK 5-5, Spartan Nyx, or Fallkniven S1 and I'm good to go.

Moose

Sorry about the tangent....but I like reading about other peoples outdoor experiences as I often learn from them. This year the wife and I went up north to a national park in the Boreal. Everything was saturated wet and very few fires were up and running. I had an edge with my Small axe and knowledge gained from this site and other resources. I used strips of heavily resin coated bark to start and maintain my fires. I saw people looking over at our fire and I knew that they were having difficulty. I offered to help one couple but macho man said no and that he was fine. I saw them later struggling to get their smoky fire going all morning. I'm no magical fire wiz but using that sappy bark along with large gobs of crystalized sap gave our fire a roaring boost multiple times until it was strongly established. A light drizzle\rain made the struggle a bit tougher and luckily the rain stopped. I was also lucky that I didn't have to try to keep it going through a steady rain though. Of course every situation is different and the effort sometimes not worth the short time stayed in one spot. I hope to (well not really, more like I'm willing to) try the same scenario with a steady rain. I would have to construct an over hang or type of fire shelter\cover if I didn't have a tarp. This would definately be a MUCH tougher challenge for me, but an interesting one. I always try to challenge myself to tougher fire starting conditions and this is as high as I am right now. The easily available resin coated bark up north boosts my confidence a lot. Now down south here.........hmmm. I'd better work on those feather sticks which I'm not very good at yet. And as for the knife used.... it was the runty little blade on my Leatherman Wave that I used for the most part. Funny considering my big blade mentality.

 

[collecter]

I grew up in the northern boreal forset and know it well. Building a "cabana" is something I did on a regular basis. During moose hunting i enjoyed making my little cabana blinds more than actually hunting. I rarely made a fire outside of camp but if I did was a a very small one to boil water in my canteen cup. While wondering thru the woods I never carried more than my alox soldier, my kabar and a sharpfinger which was dedicated to field dressing.

We camped in the "wild", no camp ground, but it was always by 4x4, ATV or boat and one of us always brought a chainsaw, axe and machete. While some one was setting up camp the others wen on fire wood duty. Ther was always lots of dry standing timber and with a chainsaw and axe we cut and split more than we needed. The fire is the center of life out there.

Out here in california we can't just make a fire anywhere. A few years go on a pack train hunting trip we we're not allowed any fire. Needless to say it was the worst outdoors experience of my lfe. Camping in the middle nowhere without a fire for 5 days...sucked the life out of us. Now we just don't go out there during the high fire season.

 

[upnorth]

I grew up in the northern boreal forset and know it well. Building a "cabana" is something I did on a regular basis. During moose hunting i enjoyed making my little cabana blinds more than actually hunting. I rarely made a fire outside of camp but if I did was a a very small one to boil water in my canteen cup. While wondering thru the woods I never carried more than my alox soldier, my kabar and a sharpfinger which was dedicated to field dressing.

We camped in the "wild", no camp ground, but it was always by 4x4, ATV or boat and one of us always brought a chainsaw, axe and machete. While some one was setting up camp the others wen on fire wood duty. Ther was always lots of dry standing timber and with a chainsaw and axe we cut and split more than we needed. The fire is the center of life out there.

Out here in california we can't just make a fire anywhere. A few years go on a pack train hunting trip we we're not allowed any fire. Needless to say it was the worst outdoors experience of my lfe. Camping in the middle nowhere without a fire for 5 days...sucked the life out of us. Now we just don't go out there during the high fire season.

Yes it is unfortunate that we have to compromise at times. My wife absolutely will NOT go to a totaly isolated spot to camp as she is freaked by bears. And I swear to G.od that near every time we go, even to more remote spots, I run into an A..hole that decides to split wood at 4am. Crack !!!!, thump, thump, Crack !! Like peals of thunder. I just want to go over and crack his empty skull with a log myself. Screaming at them through the tent allows me to go back to sleep and avoid assault charges.

 

[sutured]

Several of these antidotes seem to reinforce what I have learned for myself over the years.

Namely that while a large knife will be better at processing firewood than a small knife, no knife is very efficient at it. (To be clear I'm not talking about parangs, billhooks or the monster choppers which are closer to machetes than knives.)

Thick, heavy, overbuilt knives sacrifice a lot of usefulness for a dubious return. By the time you get a knife with the mass and balance to be good at chopping, it's not very handy for anything else. Seems to me that the end result is a tool that isn't very good as a knife and isn't very good as an axe. Even worse (to me) is an overbuilt knife that is too massive and thick to be efficient, but not massive and thick enough to be a good chopper.

If you need to process firewood, bring the proper tools: Saws and axes.

Proper tools make things possible which would otherwise be out of reach, but no collection of tools will make up for a lack of knowledge and skill.

Is there a situation where a person will survive with a beefy nine-inch knife but perish if all they have is a four-inch puukko? Maybe, but I think it would be a fluke. I think it's much more realistic to envision a scenario where a person will survive if he has an axe or saw and perish without one, regardless of how beefy his knife is.

For myself I choose a relatively lightweight knife with no more than five inches of blade, often less. I don't care that it's not a good wood splitter or chopper, I only care that it's a knife that does the majority of my cutting chores well and is light enough that I don't give it a second thought. I'll bring a folding saw and/or an axe if I need to cut firewood.

Just my preference. It was different ten years ago and may well be different ten years from now.

 

[sicily02]

Well pitdog, since you ask. enough to get the cutting chore done. 2 sizes of knives seems to work the best for me anyways, One small knife with a 5" or less blade length

and then one bigger with a 5" or longer blade length.

Yep, One smaller and one larger knife just works for me.

Since you asked ,

Bryan

 

[SARBlade]

There's a time for everything. A hatchet, machete, saw, skinner, etc. Most work I do gets handled with a good 4" blade and a multitool with a wood saw on it. I have a decent custom that I like for my dedicated bushcrafting, but many times I just take a Mora, an Izula, or my little skeleton handled Swamp Rat (I forget the model). For the multitool, I like the SOG Multiplier or a Victorinox hunter model.

 

[collecter]

It was different ten years ago and may well be different ten years from now.

So true but do you find that you keep going back to one or two favorites that just feel right?

I keep coming back to this forum as a research tool to see what the latest & greatest is. I've tried so many knives and tools that I couldn't put a number to it. I suppose at this point I could consider this entertainment.

 

[sutured]

So true but do you find that you keep going back to one or two favorites that just feel right?

I keep coming back to this forum as a research tool to see what the latest & greatest is. I've tried so many knives and tools that I couldn't put a number to it. I suppose at this point I could consider this entertainment.

Make no mistake about it, this is absolutely and unequivocally entertainment. I could have stopped with the Case Trapper or Buck Woodsman I bought when I was ten (and which I still have) and gotten along just fine till now. But what fun would that be?

I guess the ones that have always stuck with me are a Swiss Army Camper and some form of one-hand-opening folder with a pocket clip. I've had dozens of them from all different makers, and by far the best was the Cold Steel Voyager back when they were made in Japan. The new Voyagers do not work for me, and a surprising number of other makers just don't produce a knife that's very good for working, though they're plenty good for flipping.

I much prefer fixed blades, but those two designs have proven to be the most useful over the years.

There's a lot of hype about materials...wunder steel and handles from the latest composite and locking mechanisms that damn near require a combination to undo. They cost a premium and so people expect they will be better, but that's seldom been my experience. In fact, some of the latest wunder steels (3v) have become my least favorite knife steel.

Quality construction, good ergonomics, and a size and weight that work for YOU make a good knife. If you don't have those three things no combination of materials is going to make up for it.

 

[Moosez45]

I honestly think, its the will, skill, and hands behind the knife, not the knife itself.

I love big knives, Junglas and BK9 are just a couple of examples of my "Big'uns". In a tough spot, I would prefer to have the largest knife I can manage, which, both of those fit the bill. I can carve triggers, spoons, forks, tent stakes, and all sorts of stuff with a large knife. Its just not as easy.

You can get a small knife to work up, out of its range, with some skill, knowledge and experience. I've used a BK14 to down 4-5" poplars in a couple of minutes, no big, make a "wedge" to split larger pieces of wood with, and so on.

But the energy expended doing so, is a heavy cost IMO. But lugging a 9" blade around all the time in the woods, is burden in and of itself. I can tote it, and depending on what I'm doing, I usually do.

But on my latest fishing trip, I hipped up a Mora Bushcraft Force. Never needed more.

On hunting trips, I usually belt up a "general purpose" hunting knife, like my Dozier K11, Blackjack Trailguide, or one of my custom hunting knives. I'm not gonna go beating on them with a baton unless I have to, the edges are just to thin, so, I throw a BK9 or BK2 in my pack, for just the heavy lifting, should I need it. Making a carcass rack, tripod, buccan, litter, or something else I need. I try not to carry too much in with me, as I hope to be carrying more out. So, I plan on making what I need when I get there.

That's kind of why I am getting into a 5" blade cut from a heavier stock, with a good design. Right now, the RMK Model 5-5 is what I'm really after, but there are several knives in the same category that will do just fine.

Brawn and finesse aren't two features you usually find on the same knife. SO, here's to hopin'......

Moose

 

[baldtaco-II]

Somewhere between 4-6” for me................Go any smaller than about 4” and unless it's a dirty job a folder will do it for me. The single reason for me to use a fixed smaller than about 4” is that it's the kind of task that crud will soon migrate up into the innards of a folder doing unless I'm extremely pampering of it, and I don't need nags like that. I've got no reservations about strength in any folder I'm likely to buy, and I just as likely to snap the tip off a FB of equivalent size if I was doing something stupid – unless of course it was one of those Voxnaes prybar things that offers 7mm thickness for 3.5” length. But I only mention those in lip service to avoid omission not because I take them seriously as a cutting instrument. In extremis there are also those diddy little “tin knives”. I saw one of those recently and compared notes. I popped a little lambsfoot folder in an Altoids tin and then wondered how much the performance would degrade if I cut the blade and handle in half, and rounded it so it had masses of belly and no point. I concluded that unless I wanted something that I had to pinch grip in two fingers for skinning type cuts the folder would slaughter it at everything real world useful. In short, the floor is set at about 4” for a FB unless it is for doing something mucky because a folder is just more convenient......................A ceiling size of close to 6” is about ideal for me, and I'm currently using a 4 and a 5 odd. I don't see the point of my going much bigger than that without going massive. Massive blades, machetes. goloks, billhooks, and even the foot of fish chopper I really like are useful, but they are useful at themed events only. They are not a useful accompaniment to my regular gear. I have to have hobbled my kit in some way to make their inclusion useful. For sure that can be fun. I've got a mate that comes out with me every so often carrying only what he can fit in his webbing. I don't do the military webbing but I use a skeletal kit too because that's the game. A whopper cutter comes in very handy for that but it is not the norm. For all practical purposes here I can dismiss that as rogue because the situation is contrived to be hard. And if we start including those situations we might as well ask what's a good blade length for a week in the woods dressed as a Hobbit Orc slayer. Bit silly...................In sum, for what I consider a standard load out for a few days out in the sticks with sleeping bag, bivvy, stove and so on 6” is the upper limit of what I need for convenience and a margin of safety for the unexpected, often an inch or so less.

 

[pitdog]

Well pitdog, since you ask. enough to get the cutting chore done. 2 sizes of knives seems to work the best for me anyways, One small knife with a 5" or less blade length

and then one bigger with a 5" or longer blade length.

Since you asked ,

Bryan

I don't really need one but I'm gonna have to have something similar to this from you Bryan before I'm finished, maybe just a baby though with a 6 1/2"-7" blade !

 

[sicily02]

What!!!! Oh yes you do. You can always use another good knife. That is what keeps the world moving lol.

Just let me know when you are ready for a Baby one lol.

Bryan

 

[soapboxpreacher]

When I got into knives 7 years ago I was bent on a chopper, got on a forum and watched people buying these 600 dollar Busses...for everyone talked about batoning, chopping, zombies and so on. After getting a heavy kabar (as a big blade test) as well as a EESE junglas I realized quickly how impractical these blades are...just my opinion. Took one on a hike and one on a camp out and their large size made it feel one dimensional. They do zero fine work well..feature stick...no, clean fish...no (well maybe a shark), carve a wood spoon...no, food prep...not really (maybe a watermelon). Not to mention there are better tools that are lighter and expend much less energy to achieve the same results. Chopping to me is more IMO a function of "I can cut a tree down with my knife" more than should I cut a tree down with a knife? I take a sawvior/sven or a small folding kershaw...we did a test and chopped/sawed some 8" rounds both started and every saw was easier and faster to do...ok so you could break a saw...for my type of use and situation...its ok if it happens! I have also taken an axe, wetterlings large hunting axe and it is big and heavy. I found out quick that even an axe has its limits! I didnt like how it traveled, the space it took up and the limited function it had. Splitting...ok...but my A1 batoning is just fine too...and actually felt safer if you can believe it. Maybe in longer term situation might be better, I dont know. As for Armageddon the large chopper...hmmm...maybe, takes some to wield it around and once again...you would get tired fast not to mention it is hard to carrier as well as conceal. I have a cheap kukri which is ok and once again has its limits and practical application...once again key word is "practical" here.

Now with over 40 knives to my collection and a number of trips under my belt I have settled on a few that I fell are well rounded and serve a much more vast usage then the big chopper. My S1 seems to fit the all-arounder. It is light, stainless, sheath is minimal but functional and practical. Tang is thru, grip is excellent eats up shock and stays tacky when wet! It ease to pack or carry! I am a fan of the convex edge for touch up, versatility and strength seem to be an advantage. I have used a Bark Bravo 1 (it was just ok compared to my falks), EESE 4 (another one I like alot), BK2...TANK! but too thick for fine work (Still love it now that I have the micarta scales on it), A1 my first favorite, F1 another favorite, and my EESE 6 is very nice as well! I take one of these and a spyderco...spydercos are great slicers! Food prep and fine work are amazingly easy! Not my EDC but for camping, hiking, etc they are awesome!

My finding is around 4-6 inches seems to cover just about anything without giving away to anything that is just impractical. My junglas is looking for a new home...I want to trade it. I used it once and it is one dimensional to me. I prefer a machete...have 3 (Condors and Marble) and like them much better, not to mention cheaper and lighter!! I have found a machete can take a tree down pretty easy as well. They do stick but they are easy to get out if you know what you are doing. Might not have the durability but they seem to have done fine in the junglas for centuries, enough said!

So how much is enough? Some of this depends on the situation. For me I typically take it my S1 or A1 and a folder on my hikes and camp outs. I baton (nothing too big) and shelter build (for fun) with the S1 and folder does the typical food prep, rope cutting, and pan fish prep. If I really want to do some shelter building then I take a folding saw with. Just my 2 cents!

 

[coote]

Well said Soapboxpreacher.

Occasionally I get the urge to own a big knife but, like you've pointed out, I find them a nuisance to tote around and they simply don't work as well as a smaller, thinner knife for most tasks.

Like the old alchemists, many of us have been looking for that perfect answer. Instead of turning base metals into gold, we are seeking that one perfect knife that will be our ideal companion for every task and which will save us in every tight situation.

For general homesteading and hunting, something in the Mora Clipper family works well for a variety of tasks. If trees need to be felled, then nothing works better than a chainsaw. For escaping from vehicle and buildings a decent long pry bar might work best.

And a ten-dollar pocketknife might just save the day. I just don't understand why a lot of folks don't carry anything useful at all.

 

[soapboxpreacher]

Well said Soapboxpreacher.

Occasionally I get the urge to own a big knife but, like you've pointed out, I find them a nuisance to tote around and they simply don't work as well as a smaller, thinner knife for most tasks.

Like the old alchemists, many of us have been looking for that perfect answer. Instead of turning base metals into gold, we are seeking that one perfect knife that will be our ideal companion for every task and which will save us in every tight situation.

For general homesteading and hunting, something in the Mora Clipper family works well for a variety of tasks. If trees need to be felled, then nothing works better than a chainsaw. For escaping from vehicle and buildings a decent long pry bar might work best.

And a ten-dollar pocketknife might just save the day. I just don't understand why a lot of folks don't carry anything useful at all.

Have a Mora 2000 and Mora 2010 and love them, awesome for fillet. Damn near took off a finger with the 2000 once...scary sharp!!

 

[Moosez45]

Mora's are fantastic knives. My favorite is the Bushcraft Force. What a blade, and on several trips, no more knife was ever needed or wanted.

Lightweight shorts, thin shirt, wading boots, flyfishing vest, a rod and reel, quick tea kit, some light gear, and a my Force on my hip, I was set for a couple of days.

Now, that the weather is getting colder, my knife is gonna have to be tougher.

Moose