How much worse is down?

KDucky's brother said:
That or the very large cotton storage bag most all high ends bags should come with.
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Why? I thinking just for backpacking. I though you said somewhere else that you put you sleeping bag in a trash bag and put that in the bottom of you backpack.......... Can you elaborate?



What's a good company for bags? Is Kelty and Big Agnes decent? I am only hoping for 3-4 years use out of my sleeping bag.



Edit: the Bellyache Mountain SL 17 is what I am looking at getting.......... I am trying to get something that is comfortable around 24(f) and compresses smaller than 9'x9'
 
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NeedItCheaper said:
Why? I thinking just for backpacking. I though you said somewhere else that you put you sleeping bag in a trash bag and put that in the bottom of you backpack.......... Can you elaborate?



What's a good company for bags? Is Kelty and Big Agnes decent? I am only hoping for 3-4 years use out of my sleeping bag.
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We're talking about 2 different things. Most better sleeping bags come with TWO storage bags. One for stuffing/compressing for when I place it into the bottom of my pack(and along with the trash bag over it if the weather dictates). The other is for long term storage. ..or any time your not using it basically. The "cotton storage" bags are used for long term storage because thye breath very well, large so they keep the bags max lofted( which most all benefits serve to maximize long term life), clean, moisture free, etc. It goes a loooong way in getting the most life out of a given bag.

A good down bag will last a life time, if taken care of. I've used my 3 bags hundreds of times each. Still going strong.

Theres plenty of "good"(Marmot, TNF, Mtn Hardwear, Seirra Designs, etc) down bags out there. As suggested here before, go for closeouts. Most of the time they're still great bags. They'll change a color or some other detail, and the old stock is blown out at places like Seirra Trading Post and the like.

Big Agnes typically have made very good bags. I haven't looked at them in a few yrs, and don't know how they are now.

Not a fan of Kelty. They'll "work"..but they'll be heavier and bulkier for any given temp rating.

Some of the "best" bags imo are..
Western Mountaineering
Feathered Friends
Marmot

But!..theres others that are still pretty dang good.
 
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NeedItCheaper said:
What's a good company for bags? Is Kelty and Big Agnes decent? I am only hoping for 3-4 years use out of my sleeping bag.

Edit: the Bellyache Mountain SL 17 is what I am looking at getting.......... I am trying to get something that is comfortable around 24(f) and compresses smaller than 9'x9'
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My preference for down sleeping bags is Western Mountaineering (have had a couple - kept my Puma Super-Dryloft), then Valandre (though never used a Valandre they receive high accolades from credible users) , followed by probably Feathered Friends and from the more mainstream brands, Marmot (I have a DryLoft CWM and DryLoft Pinnacle). Unfortunately, Integral Designs (formerly of Calgary, Alberta, CA) no longer makes sleeping bags for the general public, but they would also be on my preferred list.

However, a trusted friend has a LL Bean -30 down bag that he's used on many 14ers in Colorado and loves it so sometimes "store brands" can work out well.

It's important to learn how much down-fill is in a given bag (measured in ounces or grams) and the fill-power (ie 800 fill-power is a good measurement). Even still, not all down is "equal" so that's why it's better (and usually more expensive...) to go with a well-regarded manufacturer.
 
I also hike a lot in England where everything is wet and cold
Only use synthetic fill
 
fmajor007 said:
My preference for down sleeping bags is Western Mountaineering (have had a couple - kept my Puma Super-Dryloft), then Valandre (though never used a Valandre they receive high accolades from credible users) , followed by probably Feathered Friends and from the more mainstream brands, Marmot (I have a DryLoft CWM and DryLoft Pinnacle). Unfortunately, Integral Designs (formerly of Calgary, Alberta, CA) no longer makes sleeping bags for the general public, but they would also be on my preferred list.

However, a trusted friend has a LL Bean -30 down bag that he's used on many 14ers in Colorado and loves it so sometimes "store brands" can work out well.

It's important to learn how much down-fill is in a given bag (measured in ounces or grams) and the fill-power (ie 800 fill-power is a good measurement). Even still, not all down is "equal" so that's why it's better (and usually more expensive...) to go with a well-regarded manufacturer.
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Ha! I also have the Dryloft Pinnacle. Great bag. Roomier then most. Water resistant. 2.5lb if I remember right. Warm for its rating. Was expensive as hell at $425 way back then(retail price. I didn't pay near that much). when I got it about 14-15yrs ago.

Altho I've not had to do it..for serious temps(-10 or below) and since the Pinnacle is roomier then most, I can place the very tapered Western Mtneering Highlite(16oz., 35* rating) inside of it, for an estimated -15* or so combo, and still be at 3.5lbs.

My fav do-all 'cold 3 season'..or 'mild winter' bag, is the Western Mtneering Ultralite(the older lighter verion at a true 1lb 8oz/25* rating). I've taken it down to the single digits many times and have yet to be cold in it.

These 2 WM bags mentioned, are from their Extremelite Series which have super light materials that require the owner/user to take very good care of it. If so, they(the bags) will take care of them:thumbup:. Heres the Highlite..

http://www.westernmountaineering.co...cts&page=sleeping-bags&cat=extremelite-series

westerntmn-16_SM.jpg


They cross seam it so maximum control of the 850+ down is achieved so what little actual fill thats used, can be at its best. Note in bold, that theres 1.5" netting made into the vertical seams so as to further enhance/encourage max loft.

"Everything in the HighLite's design is intended to reduce weight and promote compressibility. First, the .9 ounce ExtremeLite™ shell fabric goes without saying. No other shell fabric is this light or packed with so many threads per inch. This specialized ExtremeLite™ bag uses a one way #4 1/2 YKK coil zipper that is cut to half length. While the horizontal seams are sewn-thru, the vertical seams are baffled with 1 1/2" netting to allow unimpeded loft so the effect of its 850+ goose down is fully realized. Its efficient cut not only reduces bulk and weight, but reduces excess internal volume so quick heating is realized! At only 16 ounces total weight, no other bag is as light, as warm, as well made or as handsome as our HighLite."
 
KDucky's brother said:
Ha! I also have the Dryloft Pinnacle. Great bag. Roomier then most. Water resistant. 2.5lb if I remember right. Warm for its rating. Was expensive as hell at $425 way back then(retail price. I didn't pay near that much). when I got it about 14-15yrs ago.

Altho I've not had to do it..for serious temps(-10 or below) and since the Pinnacle is roomier then most, I can place the very tapered Western Mtneering Highlite(16oz., 35* rating) inside of it, for an estimated -15* or so combo, and still be at 3.5lbs.
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I love it! It's tough to knock a great bag like the DryLoft Pinnacle (back when Marmot "got it right"). I bought the bag for my then GF/now wife about 16 years ago while I was moon-lighting at an EMS store for the discounts! I've used it wayyyy more than she has and it's a great bag.

KDucky's brother said:
My fav do-all 'cold 3 season'..or 'mild winter' bag, is the Western Mtneering Ultralite(the older lighter verion at a true 1lb 8oz/25* rating). I've taken it down to the single digits many times and have yet to be cold in it.
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I've been giving a lot of thought to updating my bag line-up a bit... I'd like something like the WM Badger with an extra 3 oz's of down for the "somewhat cold but not deep cold" temps and then some "who cares" synth bag or even a fleece bag for summer stuff (though I disdain summer camping b/c bugs and heat, higher up the mountains here in CO the temp's can be quite pleasant). This will keep the Pinnacle available for my kids when they come along.
 
NeedItCheaper said:
KDucky's brother is greatest man on living earth!
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I was wondering if all of this is done without the use of this water repellent down I read about? Have you gone decades now with untreated down with no issues? I'm basically sold on the idea. Am just waiting for my next paycheck:p
 
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I've been slandered.

I'd have to see it to believe it, regarding water resistant down. But water does shed off a ducks back, so.. But I sure wouldn't depend on it regardless.

Another benefit with the highest end down bags..because they compress measurably smaller and lighter(at a given temp rating) then mid grade down or any syn bag, one can now use a smaller and lighter pack. Then get a small minimalist shelter.. lighter stove/cookware.. ultralight shells.. minimalist layers and no spares(a lot of weight can be saved here. clothes are heavy).. Then, an even lighter smaller pack.. and presto. your there. As been stated before, if you can get your Big 3 under 10lbs(which really isn't hard with todays quality gear. just take $$ unfortunately*) cumulative, then your already a long way toward having a much lighter pack.

*Light, functional, cheap. Pick 2.

Ops. Edit. Sorry.
 
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KDucky's brother said:
I've been slandered.

I'd have to see it to believe it, regarding water resistant down. But water does shed off a ducks back, so..
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Yes - off the feathers as arranged on their bodies, over the down.

Ducks, of course, have no sweat glands so they don't have to worry about condensed sweat collapsing their down.
 
If someone is soaking a down bag you're doing something very wrong. Synthetic's warmth to weight ratio in addition to compressibility and longevity is nowhere near that of down. I live in one of the wettest areas of North America and I've never soaked a down bag, not even close. I use them in the rain, in snow caves, in bivy sacks etc. When hiking, I store it in a waterproof compression sack. The biggest risk to a down bag is body vapor over several days which is easily cured by using a vapour barrier liner.
 
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