How often do you sharpen to the 'extreme?'

[zeroed4x]

I sharpen to hair popping razor edge any time I sharpen my blades. I strop often which keeps me from having to sharpen so often. There is nothing like a good strop.
I've used stones for free hand, diamond rods, diamond stones, Lansky sharpening system, Spyderco Sharpmaker, Lansky diamond turn box, sand paper of various grits up to 800 grit and paper wheels on my bench grinder. I strop with a two hand made Cherry hardwood strops one with chromium oxide and the other with no abrasive, just conditioned leather. I've yet to find an advantage of anything being truly better to sharpen with and the only exception is my recipe for a good strop.

 

[lutejones]

It depends, I sharpen differently for different knives and steels:
But no matter what the grit if the edge is well done It should shave and slicing newsprint clean.

- I usually carry slipjoints or other kind of traditionals every day, an they can cut every thing from cardboard to plastic straps, an apple or a steak when the knife at the restaurant is awful(and you can hit the ceramic plate). I found out that a medium edge is more time worthy for the simple carbon steels, little passes on the DC4 or the translucent arkansas and done, shaving edge with a lot of bite.

- With wear resistant steels I like to polish the bevel because even though you expend more time sharpening than with simpler alloys, the edge last longer, and with these knives is the hobby part of sharpening, I don't mind spending 2 hours on a knife

- lastly, the carving knives and wood working tools, here is where is really worthy for me to sharpen to the extreme, because the difference is noticeable in the cleanliness of the cut, all the way up to 8k JWS and then strop with flexcut compound, if you only cut wood you can go a long time with only a strop.

What I'm trying to say is that is not time rewarding sharpening to the extreme for an edge that you could bang against a metal bar or a ceramic plate or a staple. If you are a sushi chef like our friend HwangJino, of course its worthy, or carving too.
At least that's my view on the matter, a polished edge gets damaged the same on every day chores than a medium or coarse edge and is slower to reproduce, so for me time/results is not on our side, only for specific jobs.

 

[Nullity]

It depends, I sharpen differently for different knives and steels:
But no matter what the grit if the edge is well done It should shave and slicing newsprint clean.

- I usually carry slipjoints or other kind of traditionals every day, an they can cut every thing from cardboard to plastic straps, an apple or a steak when the knife at the restaurant is awful(and you can hit the ceramic plate). I found out that a medium edge is more time worthy for the simple carbon steels, little passes on the DC4 or the translucent arkansas and done, shaving edge with a lot of bite.

- With wear resistant steels I like to polish the bevel because even though you expend more time sharpening than with simpler alloys, the edge last longer, and with these knives is the hobby part of sharpening, I don't mind spending 2 hours on a knife

- lastly, the carving knives and wood working tools, here is where is really worthy for me to sharpen to the extreme, because the difference is noticeable in the cleanliness of the cut, all the way up to 8k JWS and then strop with flexcut compound, if you only cut wood you can go a long time with only a strop.

What I'm trying to say is that is not time rewarding sharpening to the extreme for an edge that you could bang against a metal bar or a ceramic plate or a staple. If you are a sushi chef like our friend HwangJino, of course its worthy, or carving too.
At least that's my view on the matter, a polished edge gets damaged the same on every day chores than a medium or coarse edge and is slower to reproduce, so for me time/results is not on our side, only for specific jobs.

Man, that's a good post. :thumbup:

 

[four_shore]

hair whittling edges are great, for whittling hair...

since i actually use my knives rather than show them off, i opt for a clean working edge.

a hair splitting edge is shot the minute you put it through cardboard (for most steels).

if you use your knife as a tool, a working edge is the ticket.

if you're trying to impress your buddies...

knock yourself out.

 

[Noctis3880]

hair whittling edges are great, for whittling hair...

since i actually use my knives rather than show them off, i opt for a clean working edge.

a hair splitting edge is shot the minute you put it through cardboard (for most steels).

if you use your knife as a tool, a working edge is the ticket.

if you're trying to impress your buddies...

knock yourself out.

Not everybody cuts cardboard at work.

Food for example. Kitchen knives are often best with a razor edge, hence the love for carbon steels.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

It depends, I sharpen differently for different knives and steels:
But no matter what the grit if the edge is well done It should shave and slicing newsprint clean.

- I usually carry slipjoints or other kind of traditionals every day, an they can cut every thing from cardboard to plastic straps, an apple or a steak when the knife at the restaurant is awful(and you can hit the ceramic plate). I found out that a medium edge is more time worthy for the simple carbon steels, little passes on the DC4 or the translucent arkansas and done, shaving edge with a lot of bite.

- With wear resistant steels I like to polish the bevel because even though you expend more time sharpening than with simpler alloys, the edge last longer, and with these knives is the hobby part of sharpening, I don't mind spending 2 hours on a knife

- lastly, the carving knives and wood working tools, here is where is really worthy for me to sharpen to the extreme, because the difference is noticeable in the cleanliness of the cut, all the way up to 8k JWS and then strop with flexcut compound, if you only cut wood you can go a long time with only a strop.

What I'm trying to say is that is not time rewarding sharpening to the extreme for an edge that you could bang against a metal bar or a ceramic plate or a staple. If you are a sushi chef like our friend HwangJino, of course its worthy, or carving too.
At least that's my view on the matter, a polished edge gets damaged the same on every day chores than a medium or coarse edge and is slower to reproduce, so for me time/results is not on our side, only for specific jobs.

I'm with him.

I WAS sharpening everything I owned to whatever I had that was the highest grit, then a lot of time on the strops.

I've been experimenting with a very low grit (120 SiC) followed by a 1500 grit ceramic and I'm very much liking the results. This is especially true on my m4 Contego. I've also tried it on a CV Case Sodbuster Jr and I like it there too, so that covers a lot of ground.

On my woodcarvers I've been fortunate enough to buy knives that came very sharp from the makers. These knives have needed nothing more than frequent stropping due to the high hardness steels and geometry.

On my knives that I've repurposed for carving, which are a Cold Steel mini tuff lite (aus8) and a Carbone Opinel I've had to do some minor edge repair on occasion, and for these, especially the Opi, I'm finding a translucent arkansas stone alone to be more than proficient.

It seems super polished edges are trending down, at least in the sample of this thread, but as far as I'm concerned, acute bevels are here to stay.

 

[four_shore]

Not everybody cuts cardboard at work.

Food for example. Kitchen knives are often best with a razor edge, hence the love for carbon steels.

true but i can't think of many applications where a hair whittling edge is actually needed.

a toothy edge performs best in the kitchen.

if sharpening for hours is your hobby than it makes a little more sense but for most tasks, it's not going to hold.

20-30 mins, a couple of dmt diamonds and a strop get you one hell of a sharp working edge.

to me that's all that is necessary.

honing and stropping work wonders on maintaining an edge.

again, some people find hours of sharpening to a hair whittling mirror edge to be therapeutic.

if that's your thing...

more power to ya.

 

[Ernie1980]

I "extreme" sharpen the first time, then use strops and a sharpmaker to keep it sharp. I don't want to spend a lot of time every time I sharpen, though I do enjoy it. I do not want to wear away metal needlessly and I don't need an insane edge all the time that wears fast.

 

[four_shore]

I don't want to spend a lot of time every time I sharpen, though I do enjoy it. I do not want to wear away metal needlessly and I don't need an insane edge all the time that wears fast.

i couldn't agree more.

a very wise lady once said, "ain't nobody got time for that".

sharpening is enjoyable but it doesn't need to be an all day affair.

to each their own i suppose.

 

[Omega Leather Works]

a very wise lady once said, "ain't nobody got time for that".

Made me laugh.

 

[Noctis3880]

true but i can't think of many applications where a hair whittling edge is actually needed.

a toothy edge performs best in the kitchen.

if sharpening for hours is your hobby than it makes a little more sense but for most tasks, it's not going to hold.

20-30 mins, a couple of dmt diamonds and a strop get you one hell of a sharp working edge.

to me that's all that is necessary.

honing and stropping work wonders on maintaining an edge.

again, some people find hours of sharpening to a hair whittling mirror edge to be therapeutic.

if that's your thing...

more power to ya.

You know, nothing I ever cut in the kitchen from tomatoes to pineapples ever left me thinking "I need a more toothy edge".

Also, powered sharpening systems can do wonders as long as you're careful about not taking off too much metal. Took me 3 minutes to sharpen up my M390 Military on my Worksharp, then spent another 3 minutes stropping it on bare leather. I can't whittle my leg hairs because the hairs just pop off the edge every time I try:thumbup:. Had some luck when I took it real slow, but most of the times the hair jumps pretty far and doesn't land on the blade where I can see them.

 

[four_shore]

You know, nothing I ever cut in the kitchen from tomatoes to pineapples ever left me thinking "I need a more toothy edge".

Also, powered sharpening systems can do wonders as long as you're careful about not taking off too much metal. Took me 3 minutes to sharpen up my M390 Military on my Worksharp, then spent another 3 minutes stropping it on bare leather. I can't whittle my leg hairs because the hairs just pop off the edge every time I try:thumbup:. Had some luck when I took it real slow, but most of the times the hair jumps pretty far and doesn't land on the blade where I can see them.

funny you should mention tomatoes which happen to slice better when a toothy edge is used as opposed to a mirror polished edge. toothy bites through the skin much easier but maybe you have special tomatoes in your world.

as far as systems, as i said to each their own but i prefer traditional freehand. there's actual skill involved which to me makes it worthwhile. maybe you're misunderstanding "toothy" but if you finish with a dmt diamond 600 grit stone (which leaves the edge toothy), it works amazing in the kitchen.

different strokes for different folks i suppose.

 

[wvdavidr]

I think tomatoes require a really sharp plain edge or a good toothy edge- anything in-between is not so good. That's a fight for another day.

I'm the OP. My question was regarding how often you are willing to go through a full progression of stones/tapes/strops to produce the sharpest edge possible and whether you are willing to actually use them afterwards.

Good sharpening,
David

 

[four_shore]

I think tomatoes require a really sharp plain edge or a good toothy edge- anything in-between is not so good. That's a fight for another day.

I'm the OP. My question was regarding how often you are willing to go through a full progression of stones/tapes/strops to produce the sharpest edge possible and whether you are willing to actually use them afterwards.

Good sharpening,
David

my apologies for swerving off of the road a little.

 

[Noctis3880]

funny you should mention tomatoes which happen to slice better when a toothy edge is used as opposed to a mirror polished edge. toothy bites through the skin much easier but maybe you have special tomatoes in your world.

as far as systems, as i said to each their own but i prefer traditional freehand. there's actual skill involved which to me makes it worthwhile. maybe you're misunderstanding "toothy" but if you finish with a dmt diamond 600 grit stone (which leaves the edge toothy), it works amazing in the kitchen.

different strokes for different folks i suppose.

Produce clerk here, and I've spent some time cutting bad or overripe produce for giggles whenever I've had the time. Tomatoes were no problem at all, even with a pocket knife. I know this because none of my knives have a toothy edge, with the possible exception of a few in S90V, S110V, CTS-20CP, and S125V, which develops a toothy edge on their own.

Both will work fine in the kitchen, depending on how you cut. As you can imagine, a toothy edge works best with a sawing motion, and will squash your ingredients when you try to chop them up. This is where the mirror edges come in.

Hard to imagine doing this without a well refined edge:
[youtube]meOSd8PBCrs[/youtube]

Speaking of which, I believe that's a tomato.

 

[four_shore]

Produce clerk here, and I've spent some time cutting bad or overripe produce for giggles whenever I've had the time. Tomatoes were no problem at all, even with a pocket knife. I know this because none of my knives have a toothy edge, with the possible exception of a few in S90V, S110V, CTS-20CP, and S125V, which develops a toothy edge on their own.

Both will work fine in the kitchen, depending on how you cut. As you can imagine, a toothy edge works best with a sawing motion, and will squash your ingredients when you try to chop them up. This is where the mirror edges come in.

Hard to imagine doing this without a well refined edge:
[youtube]meOSd8PBCrs[/youtube]

Speaking of which, I believe that's a tomato.

in so many words you're only verifying that we're both right depending on your method of cutting.

as a produce clerk, chopping a tomato like that might be necessary but the toothy edge i finish with works excellent for

slow, accurate, equal slices.

cool video though.

is that you?

 

[unit]

To address the original question:

If I properly maintain my edge, I can re-hone it to a 14,000 grit finish in 2 to 5 minutes. (By properly maintain, I mean address the edge BEFORE it degrades to the point of requiring a full regrind of the edge).

How often this gets done depends on the volume of use. I'd guess I do it every month or two on my EDC.

Toothy edges or less coarse edges are fine, I just like what I like. I can finish to whatever grit people want, but I mostly hone razors (so nothing below 8,000 will suffice).

 

[pwet]

please not the tomato likes toothy thing again .... tomato likes sharp, if you struggle slicing (yes i said slicing, with a slicing motion, drawing the knife with minimal pressure) a tomato with a polished edge, you rounded your apex, end of the story.

and no thats not a novelty thing, like some here i'm a pro cook with a decade of experience, my first master is today 70 yo, he is a "maitre compagnon du devoir" for those who know what it means... and he has always took his chefs knife all the way to a yellow coticule, and guess what he used to cut tomatoes with it among other things.

no novelty, just people knowing better than other, and people deciding that something isnt viable because they didnt manage to make it work.

for edc though, i usually stop around 600 to 1200 mesh ....

 

[four_shore]

please not the tomato likes toothy thing again .... tomato likes sharp

you say that as if knives can't be both toothy and sharp (which is obviously false).

there's no need to patronize here.

i've just found that an edge doesn't have to be mirror polished to slice a tomato.

in my experience a toothy edge slices and bites as good as you would ever need (but i don't work in a kitchen).

sorry to the OP i'm done.

 

[unit]

please not the tomato likes toothy thing again .... tomato likes sharp, if you struggle slicing (yes i said slicing, with a slicing motion, drawing the knife with minimal pressure) a tomato with a polished edge, you rounded your apex, end of the story ....

Along those lines, a GREAT way to round your apex is to use a scraping motion with the edge across the cutting board to move the chopped material aside.

Pros may be able to do this without contacting the edge to the board, but even the person in the video dragged the edge as you can hear.

As a suggestion, flip the knife and push the material with the spine to clear your board. This will save your edge (weather toothy or polished).

Have a nice day.