how to work with silver? HELP PLEASE

Knifemaker87

Knifemaker87

Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
1,073
hey everybody.
i am going to receive some silver (5.2 troy oz) of silver to use in making a tsuba for a tanto, and i am also going to get some for the habaki.

i have no experience working with silver and need to know.. would it be better to cast it? hammer it? does it anneal like copper does? what is the best way to work with it?

i obviously don't want to do alot of grinding.. as it is very expensive stuff..

thanks
~chris
 
Do you mean pure silver or sterling silver ? Sterling is an age hardening alloy. You can hammer and anneal or ytou could cast. There are jewelers here who could give the details.
 
I think it depends on how your getting the silver, scrap, sheet, casting grains?
Grant
 
Chris,
That is a big question with no simple answer.
First question is what form is the silver in now?
Second, what purity is it?
Third, what equipment do you have to work it with?

You can anneal silver by heating it to dull red, let it cool until the color fades, and quench it in a bucket of water. After that you can work it under the hammer, re-annealing it as needed (about every 1/4 reduction or expansion). Hammered silver looks pretty nice. It also hardens somewhat with the hammer work.

Casting is always another option. You carve a model from carvers wax, invest it in crystobalite, and cast the piece. It requires a good bit of equipment, and a fair bit of experience. You still have to hand finish the piece.

Wether cast or forged; the piercing, sawing, and filing is pretty straight forward, and is a little less gummy than copper, but gummier than steel.

If it is in the form of some type of scrap, the best bet might be to melt it down, pour it into a simple disk shaped ingot mold (carved in a fire brick or such), and forge it out from that.

When it gets here, call or email me and I'd be glad to help you with whichever way you decide to go.
Stacy
 
here is what the guy said:
"I just bought a 5.2 troy ounce bar of sterling. Should get it sometime next week and then I will ship it out to you so you can get started on the tsuba. I will send you the sterling sheet in a couple weeks."

stacy,
if you have time... might need your help on this one.. and perhaps on another project.
thanks!
~Chris
 
A short answer to a long qustion.
The complete metalsmith, by Tim McCreight published by Davis publicaions.
Mostly on jewlery type work. sodering, casting, making tools and fixtures.
 
Hi Chris,

Well now we know you'll have a 5 oz sterling bar and some sheet to work with. I don't know what the items you are going to make look like so that also poses some limitations on making suggestions.

Sounds like everyone's covered most of the bases, although fabrication by construction wasn't mentioned. Sterling is fairly easy to solder. Jeweler's grade silver solder comes in three grades: soft, medium and hard. Hard is the purest (matches perfectly) but melts the closest to sterling's melting point. Soft solder melts a bit lower than sterling, but is still good, although it's not quite as strong and can show up a bit darker if there is much slop or fill with it. Borax makes a good flux.

Do you have any jewelry suppliers in your area? They could help with advise too. They'd also have some pickling compound you could add to your quenching water, thus removing the oxides. If you want to melt and pur closer to your shape, they'd have casting investment and/or soft refractory solder blocks you could make "ingot" casting forms from. Either would leave a real smooth surface on your pour. They'd also have a handled crucible to do your melt in.

But then maybe you'll just be able to shape what you need straight from the bar?

Looking forward to hearing and seeing more.

Phil
 
Chris - I think you should look into casting it. You can practice on cheaper metals until you get what you want and then do the silver casting.
 
It might be possible to hire out the casting. All you'd have to do is the wax model and then fit and finish work after.
 
If you carve the waxes , might get a dental lab to cast it for you, dont have any idea as to the cost but you could check around and see what they will do it for. I know several gunmakers that get small stuff cast that way.

Jerry Fisher
 
*ponders*
i have played around with the casting... i have a couple crucibles on hand actually. i was thinking about making a silver habaki before. do yall know where i can get some wax? cause.. i have wax.. but i dont know if it is the right kind. i may be able to get some practial advice at work too.. we have a foundry.

thanks for the advice guys!
~chris
 
If you end up casting it I'd be more than happy to do the casting for you. I do jewelry casting so it would be no problem. Riogrande.com is probably the easiest place to get carving wax.
Grant
 
If you give Rio Grande a call they tend to be very helpful in recommending what will work well for your application. My catalog is at the shop otherwise I'd check it out right now.
Grant
 
I'd like to jump in here to recommend against casting for a habaki on a Japanese-style blade that might ever see use--or even disassembly and cleaning.

The work-hardening part of habaki fabrication is critical to maintaining a tight fit over time. Otherwise the repeated small impacts of handling, disassembly, usage, etc. will cause the habaki to deform and the fit to loosen.

Nothing's more embarrassing than a wiggly habaki. :D

PS I use hard solder, not the soft stuff. Also, I have only done this in copper, so take my dire warnings with that in mind. ;)
 
I have thought about making the casting.. and then hammering it a bit while on the blade for a better fit, and also some working hardening.. otherwise i am going to use the bar of sterling for the tsuba.. and then use the sheet for the habaki. i have the hard silver solder... and i used it on copper too.. and it is much tougher than the plumbing stuff..
*grins*

i HATe a wiggly habaki... *laughs* dont look at my early stuff...

my first habaki i made out of brass.. and used JB weld insead of solder... oops.
thanks yall!
~chris
 
Chris,
Tidewater Lapidary is the jewelers supplier in this area. It is in Norfolk at Azalea gardens Rd. and Princess Anne Rd.. They have carving wax. Rio Grande is a good source for hobbyists. Stuller is a source for professionals (no retail sales). If you need any carving wax, I can order it for you. It comes in several types and hardnesses. Do some research and let me know what you need. I like the blue wax for larger things like a tsuba.
Stacy
 
Chris - you'll get a bit of shrink from the casting, so if you put a warm tang through the wax and do your carving, the habaki will end up smaller and you'll be able to get a tight fit with files and pressure. Scott Slobodian casts pretty much all of his fittings and this is how he explained habaki casting to me. Aaron has a good point with the working loose, but I don't think that an art blade with sterling fittings should be seeing that kind of wear.
 
AcridSaint,
that is a good point.. i hadnt thought of that.
i am still playing around with both ideas.. i have the blade almost all ready.. so.. it will have to make a decision pretty soon..
btw.. i have a blade you might be intrested in... i was thinking of finishing it as a cross cultural philipino-japanese large knife.. large flared blade with a habaki and pistol grip..
and a sweet hamon.
i will post pics soon (my camera has been broken) but i tis going to look like a small pedang.
tahnks!
~chris
 
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