How Tough are the Tri-Ad™ Lock Knives Compared to the Usual Suspects?

Tripton said:
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Someone needs to do the weight hanging thing with a variety of good folders to actually see where they stand. Until then, while those videos seem pretty impressive, they are also pretty worthless. I cant say that I have ever had a knife fold on me anyway. Must be using them properly or something.


(Of course, I am not going to be tearing up all of my knives to see which has the strongest lock... Someone else do it.;))
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There is a very well respected member here who has done such tests (not on video, his word is good enough to me) and commented on the results.

I know it's a 'delicate' (no pun intended) subject for many owners of those knives so I won't quote him.

I am sure he will comment if he thinks it's appropriate. You could always do a search but if you own a Hard Use/Hardcore framelock you will probably be :( afterward.
 
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Ankerson said:
Just the fact that nobody else had come out and done it on video or anyplace else speaks for itself right there and makes them valid. :thumbup:
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Not really...


Not too many other knife companies do the whole "Look at this, look at me!!" video thing, either.

Just sayin'...;)
 
OrangeJoe said:
There is a very well respected member here who has done such tests and commented on the results.

I know it's a 'delicate' subject for many owners of those knives so I won't quote him.

I am sure he will comment if he thinks it's appropriate. You could always do a search but if you own a Hard Use/Hardcore framelock you will probably be :( afterwards.
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And if the tests are valid, what would be the harm in posting a link or a username?
 
Tripton said:
Not really...


Not too many other knife companies do the whole "Look at this, look at me!!" video thing, either.

Just sayin'...;)
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No you can bet your bottom dollar on that one...

If their knives could do it they would be complete idiots not to put it out there... They are not idiots nor stupid by any means so... :)

Especially after last years Blade Show when CS had a knife holding over 500 pounds during the whole show even over night with a timer etc.
 
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The only person I can think of is Sal Glesser. Spyderco has a purpose built machine to break locks, which they use to grade their own and see what the competition is doing. He has posted that the liner and frame lock so far can not reach their highest lock strength rating, where the compression lock, ball bearing lock, and back lock sit. If the traditional back lock is stronger than the frame lock, I would guess that the tri-ad is also.
 
The Triad lock gets it's strength over a normal back lock by transferring the forces to a stop pin and then to the liners. There are many other lock designs that do the same thing, transfer force through a stop pin to the liners.

A AXIS, compression, and ball bearing lock should all be able to do similar things that the Triad lock does. Especially if they were overbuilt like Cold Steel is doing. Cold Steel isn't using some kind of super steel that is stronger than what everyone else is using.

From an engineering stand point they should all be very similar in strength. I don't need a lack of videos, my bottom dollar, or any other cliches to invalidate great designs.

If someone wants to send me an example of all the locks mentioned here I would be happy to video tape it for everyone to see. Cold steel seems to have a Napoleon complex and needs to validate themselves and their products with videos on the internet. That doesn't suddenly make the Triad lock stronger than every other lock on the planet.

I'm not saying it is not strong or that it might even be the strongest. But there are others that are going to be right there with it and comparable in strength.
 
Strength, I don't know, haven't seen any definitive stress testing [still looking] among and between the popular folders out there, but durability also needs to be taken into consideration, the Tri-Ad is reputed to be very durable [by Demko himself] as well as stout.
 
TheCarbideRat said:
Strength, I don't know, haven't seen any definitive stress testing [still looking] among and between the popular folders out there, but durability also needs to be taken into consideration, the Tri-Ad is reputed to be very durable [by Demko himself] as well as stout.
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It probably is, and would you expect the guy who invented it to say anything else? Doesn't mean that others aren't just as strong, durable, and capable.

The Triad, AXIS, and compression (also frame and liner locks) all transfer positive blade forces applied to the edge to a stop pin. Why would the Triad be any stronger than these other locks with forces in this direction?

Negative blade forces, that are applied to the spine of the blade, are where the Triad will get strength over frame and liner locks. This is because the forces on a Triad lock are again transferred to the stop pin. The forces are transfered to the frame and liner lock bar in the other two which is a long piece of metal which is more prone to buckling failures. Also metal deformation will cause play and possibly a tendency for the lock to slip and stop locking the blade. In the AXIS lock forces are transfered to the AXIS lock bar which is basically a moving stop pin. Since the bar moves in a perpendicular direction as the forces, it being able to move doesn't impact it's strength. In fact the rotating blade will tend to push the lock bar forward making the lock bar more secure. The AXIS lock bar transfers the forces to the liners just like a stop pin of the Triad. The compression lock uses a piece of metal wedged between the blade tang and the stop pin to transfer forces to the stop pin. Since it is so short buckling failures are not an issue. Metal deformation will also not effect the transfer of forces to the stop pin. The ball bearing lock transfers negative blade forces to a metal back spacer attached to the liners with screws. The forces are transfered to the metal liners through 4 screws and static friction between back spacer and liners (which the tight screws should make pretty substantial) instead of one bigger round stop pin. The 4 screws should be about as strong as a standard size stop pin and require a lot of shear stress to cause failure. The flat blade tang and flat back spacer contact should also lessen metal deformation compared to a round stop pin with a much smaller contact area. Again, what about the Triad lock makes it stronger than the other locks?

All of these locks are much more strong than is needed on a folding knife. The blade, pivot pin, and handle/ hand grip will all most likely have weaker failing points than the actual lock.
 
Just compared to the other folders in their previous line in the weight hang, the triad is 2-4 times as strong structurally as any of them. So, if nothing else, the product testing shows this mechanism as the strongest in their line. A line which already boasts one of the strongest liner locks, the Ultra Lock (very similar to the Axis), and the old Rocker Lock wasn't a slouch either.

It is true that so much solid lockup is not necessary for every task. A good
barlow pattern has served the working man very well for a very long time. But as far as the strength the Triad mechanism holds stronger than anything else right now, close as it may seem.
 
GrinderMcgee said:
Just compared to the other folders in their previous line in the weight hang, the triad is 2-4 times as strong structurally as any of them. So, if nothing else, the product testing shows this mechanism as the strongest in their line. A line which already boasts one of the strongest liner locks, the Ultra Lock (very similar to the Axis), and the old Rocker Lock wasn't a slouch either.

It is true that so much solid lockup is not necessary for every task. A good
barlow pattern has served the working man very well for a very long time. But as far as the strength the Triad mechanism holds stronger than anything else right now, close as it may seem.
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That's something people seem to forget, conveniently since we are talking about CS. ;)

If it was Spyderco or CRK that got Andrew Demko and his Tri Ad lock there wouldn't even be a debate at all IMO.

If Sal or Chris came out and said the Tri Ad lock was the strongest it wouldn't even be questioned, it would be taken as Gospel right off the bat.

The fact of the matter is that Andrew Demko designed it and certian knives for Cold Steel, the Tri Ad lock is his Design. :)
 
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Ok I think everyone is overlooking the most common thing here ......a good lock doesn't fail... We never needing a stronger locking system. If you bust an axis lock it's your own stupidity
 
Bill86 said:
Ok I think everyone is overlooking the most common thing here ......a good lock doesn't fail... We never needing a stronger locking system. If you bust an axis lock it's your own stupidity
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They develop up and down blade play under hard use from my experiences with them, had a few Axis locks and Ultra Locks, they all did the same thing over time.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
It probably is, and would you expect the guy who invented it to say anything else? Doesn't mean that others aren't just as strong, durable, and capable.

The Triad, AXIS, and compression (also frame and liner locks) all transfer positive blade forces applied to the edge to a stop pin. Why would the Triad be any stronger than these other locks with forces in this direction?

Negative blade forces, that are applied to the spine of the blade, are where the Triad will get strength over frame and liner locks. This is because the forces on a Triad lock are again transferred to the stop pin. The forces are transfered to the frame and liner lock bar in the other two which is a long piece of metal which is more prone to buckling failures. Also metal deformation will cause play and possibly a tendency for the lock to slip and stop locking the blade. In the AXIS lock forces are transfered to the AXIS lock bar which is basically a moving stop pin. Since the bar moves in a perpendicular direction as the forces, it being able to move doesn't impact it's strength. In fact the rotating blade will tend to push the lock bar forward making the lock bar more secure. The AXIS lock bar transfers the forces to the liners just like a stop pin of the Triad. The compression lock uses a piece of metal wedged between the blade tang and the stop pin to transfer forces to the stop pin. Since it is so short buckling failures are not an issue. Metal deformation will also not effect the transfer of forces to the stop pin. The ball bearing lock transfers negative blade forces to a metal back spacer attached to the liners with screws. The forces are transfered to the metal liners through 4 screws and static friction between back spacer and liners (which the tight screws should make pretty substantial) instead of one bigger round stop pin. The 4 screws should be about as strong as a standard size stop pin and require a lot of shear stress to cause failure. The flat blade tang and flat back spacer contact should also lessen metal deformation compared to a round stop pin with a much smaller contact area. Again, what about the Triad lock makes it stronger than the other locks?

All of these locks are much more strong than is needed on a folding knife. The blade, pivot pin, and handle/ hand grip will all most likely have weaker failing points than the actual lock.
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Actually the negative force is transfered to the backlock which happens to butt against the stop pin on the opposite the blade does. that is where the Triad gets it's tremendous strength. The combination of backlock and stop pin keeping the blade from closing. Scroll to the bottom of the page for a diagram.

http://www.coldsteel.com/triadlock1.html
 
When I first started posting in this forum and was asking about hard use folders, one of the "pre-broken" guys was really getting into it about folders. He was saying that folders can never match the strength of an FB. I agreed that it was true at the present state of the art but my hypothetical question to him at that time was "will this situation hold true forever?" Won't the future bring developments that will make a folder approach the strength of an FB? He never granted me that. :D
 
singularity35 said:
When I first started posting in this forum and was asking about hard use folders, one of the "pre-broken" guys was really getting into it about folders. He was saying that folders can never match the strength of an FB. I agreed that it was true at the present state of the art but my hypothetical question to him at that time was "will this situation hold true forever?" Won't the future bring developments that will make a folder approach the strength of an FB? He never granted me that. :D
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We are getting closer. :D
 
Yea, let's see a weight hang on an SRK. ;)

Getting closer on folders but let's be realistic, in proportion, a fixed knife is on another planet.
 
Bill86 said:
Ok I think everyone is overlooking the most common thing here ......a good lock doesn't fail... We never needing a stronger locking system. If you bust an axis lock it's your own stupidity
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I've seen good ratchets fail, abused maybe so but where is the abuse gauge to measure that? A ratchet is to a breaker bar as a folder is to a fixed blade [kinda sorta] in terms of strength ... and pivot / lock strength are the drawbacks of folders in comparison to FBs so why not develop these areas as far as possible? You are obviously not a real knife knut.
 
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GrinderMcgee said:
Yea, let's see a weight hang on an SRK. ;)

Getting closer on folders but let's be realistic, in proportion, a fixed knife is on another planet.
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that would actually be interesting, the kraton handle would eventually rip off. Plus, there are plenty of stick tang and edge quenched knives, those would bend with much, much less force than a through hardened full tang. There are really a lot of fixed blades that are weaker than folders, in the idea that the blade and handle will separate under load. But of course, you have to compare lesser strength fixed to higher strength folder designs to say that.
 
Ankerson said:
Just the fact that nobody else had come out and done it on video or anyplace else speaks for itself right there and makes them valid. :thumbup:

Believe me if one of the other makers knives could hold that much weight swinging it would be out on the internet already you can bet on that one.. ;)
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maybe they don't see a need to hang 500 lbs from a folder. What type of real world situation does it simulate ?. Its certainly an impressive amount of weight but it doesn't mean much of anything. :confused:
 
joewest69 said:
maybe they don't see a need to hang 500 lbs from a folder. What type of real world situation does it simulate ?. Its certainly an impressive amount of weight but it doesn't mean much of anything. :confused:
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Meaning of a knife's strength in it's subjective form depends on who we are talking about, I need extra strong tools in my work, some people work with knives, ergo, there will be a niche for heavy duty folders to serve these people as well as bragging rights within the industry, which is meaning in it's objective form and that means alot to those who make the knives as well as those who use them.

So the 500 lbs. doesn't have to simulate a real world situation; anyone doing that even with a fixed blade in the real world is asking for trouble and that's why controlled stress testing is done in the first place, to show what stress something is capable of putting up with instead of the end users being left to their own devices to figure it out on their own.
 
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