How tough are these traditional folders?

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Feb 17, 2011
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516
I'm pretty new to this, as some of you may have noticed, as I'm only just starting to get past the whole "Grandpa's Knife" stigma. I've discovered exactly how good these knives are at slicing with their often thinner blades with better slicing grinds. I've also discovered the amazing comfort of use compared to my more modern knives with their sharper corners. I love how rounded the handles are! But the only thing I'm still curious about is how tough the blades are. I'm used to tightening pivots when my knives develop play to work it back out and these knives are pinned and bolstered so I can't do so. Do they develop play easily with, say, a bit of carving? Or does the pinned construction hold up? Do the thinner blades handle being pushed through knotty wood when carving? Of those of you who have put your traditional folders to work, how have they held up over the years? Have you found some makers of knives or patterns hold up to harder use better than others? I'm curious whether I should try using my traditionals the same way I'd use a newer locking blade or if it's a good idea to supplement my traditionals with more modern blades...
 
A lot of those old knives were made when people were careful with a tool that might have cost more than a week's pay, but they didn't 'baby' them either. I think it's a testimony to their quality that so many survive in excellent condition. As for sheer toughness, I'd pit a WW2 British army clasp knife against any of my Spyderco or Cold Steel knives any day.
 
I'm curious as well to be honest.
Aside from a Sodbuster or an Ankermesser I don't see myself whittling with anything less "sturdy"
I love my yella Peanut, but I won't dare to use the little bugger for whittling in fear of devellopping side to side play.
A few thin branches OK but that is about the limit.
Same with my Swayback Gent or Tiny Toothpick.

My Opinels, Douk Douk or Spyderco Military on the other hand...
 
A lot of those old knives were made when people were careful with a tool that might have cost more than a week's pay, but they didn't 'baby' them either. I think it's a testimony to their quality that so many survive in excellent condition. As for sheer toughness, I'd pit a WW2 British army clasp knife against any of my Spyderco or Cold Steel knives any day.

Yes, those old British Army Clasp knives are something to behold all right.
 
As far as I'm concerned, they're plenty tough enough to handle anything I'd use any folding knife for. They may have their limits, but I'd have transitioned to using a fixed blade long before I met them.

I see some folders that could take a bullet, but I don't see that as necessary. The only time I've ever broken a knife was when I was doing something really dumb. I honestly wouldn't worry about it.
 
I think most people would be surprised at what these things can withstand.

We as knife collectors/enthusiasts tend to be fairly soft on our knives. We shouldn't forget however that they ARE built of pretty tough materials in designs that have withstood the test of time. Would I ever WANT to pry open an elevator door with my slipjoint? Probably not....but if I had to I wouldn't be all too surprised if the well heat treated steel stood up to that test.
 
Are you slicing or prying?

Cutting as in slicing does not lateraly load the pivots
Prying as making a cut then levering the wood out, loads the pivots and will weaken them
 
If you're worried about the slippies holding up to whittling / carving, you could always pick up one (or more) of the Mora carving knives (#105, #106, #120, #122) for that duty. Cheap as chips, tough, scandi grind, and with very nice laminated steel that comes scary sharp. I've carved quite a few spoons with mine and only need to strop it after every 20 minutes or half hour of carving.

EDIT: Hopefully these are "traditional" enough -- as they're sort of puukko-ish. :) Also, the wood handles on the Mora's are very comfortable and permit a wide variety of grips too -- with no hotspots -- unlike a slipjoint.



-- Kevin
 
If you want tough joints, go straight to the Opinels and learn to tune them up.

I think that the combination of slab handles and peened pin joints just can't handle any signicant lateral stress and eventually loosen. That's been my experience.

If one assumes that you have a fixed joint in reserve, then it makes sense to limit the use of a folder to cutting tasks that it can handle.

I find that cutting limbs is hard on a knife. I bend cut limbs and will often get the blade stuck, requiring some amount of twisting to free it. The Opinels never loosen up under this rough treatment.

The primary reason for this I think is the round inner lock ring, which holds the join together better. The blades are relatively thin and flexible, which also helps. Lastly, the lock ring takes out any slop, especially if you tune it to spin further around with a less angular ramp angle.
 
To be honest I have always found small dedicated fixed blade carving/whittling knives to be the best for whittling. I use my soddies for dirty harder work and they hold up very well. My small CV has developed a tiny bit of wobble after 3 years of semi abuse.

Regards

Robin
 
Slipjoints are plenty tough, lets not forget they have been carried when men did real work & also lived in much harsher conditions, and owned maybe one knife for life. Knowing knife techniques ie. keeping your blade sharp and not forcing it through something you are cutting, let the cutting edge do the work not muscle, also if you need to use pressure hold the blade and not put force on the pivot. I have always had a job where a knife was in my hand a good portion of the day and I have yet to have any knife develop any play.
Like Pinnah said Opinels are a great choice, not much can go wrong with its simplicity, I have put Opinels through some hard paces and have never had one fail.
Spydutch- I wouldn't worry about carving with your peanut, I carve peach pits with mine all the time and they are hard as stone and my peanut is still tight, and has developed no problems.

DA3EDC7B-BBE8-4B58-95F9-A3B726BBAE38-14730-00000C5FEC192BF0.jpg


I also put the peanut through its paces in a what if wilderness survival situation.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1003534-If-only-a-Peanut

I think in the end you have to pick something you feel comfortable with and meets your needs.
Pete
 
im no expert or anything but ive never broken a pocket knife and i cant recall having one one get wobbly.
use your knife as a cutting tool and not a screwdriver, hammer, wrench, pliers, rasp, hatchet, mallet, railroad spike, fencepost, skeet pigeon or crowbar and you should be all right.
 
IMightBeWrong,

each of your question has been answere, but I´d like to tell you me personal experience with work and traditional knives ;)

I´ve used traditional slipjoint (and lockbacks) for a pretty long time now. When you do with the knife for what it´s built for, means cutting (no prying, hammering, punching etc) a traditional knife will keep its performance as long as a modern knife. They were used for decades and decades for that one reason - cutting and nothing else.

The thing with bladeplay is a little delicate on the traditional knives. Modern knives have screws to fix that again. But on traditional knives, those are usually missing. You need a vice and a lot of feeling to fix that problem. But it can be fixed, nothing really to worry about.

Traditional knives require more attention. Oil the joints, wipe the blades dry after use and prefent the the blade not to rust.

I use the mighty K55K Mercator folder (Otter-built) for a long time on my building lots, in the woods, just for fun etc etc. The knife is still like a tank. The same with my Case Medium Stockman Chestnut Bone CV which was my only EDC for over nine months - or my favorite knife GEC #66 Serpentine Jack.

If you use the knife with attention and not abuse it, it will be a fellow for a long term.

And you´re right - the rounded handles and the curves are just nice to let your fingers run over them when there´s no real work to do... a little strange, but such a "worry stone" is nice to have inside the pocket :D
 
I use the mighty K55K Mercator folder (Otter-built) for a long time on my building lots, in the woods, just for fun etc etc. The knife is still like a tank.

Another example that will take some real hard use. Because they're inexpensive, a lot of those knives have really been put through their paces.
 
A good quality traditional pocketknife can handle all the use you can throw at it. Like others have said, don't pry (that's abuse, not use), and keep the blades sharp. A thin, sharp blade cuts stuff a lot easier than a thick blade and thus requires far less pressure. HARD working carpenters and ranchers and tradesmen and sailors and hunters and yes, even soldiers have counted on simple, well-made slipjoint knives for literally hundreds of years. There's nothing in this soft-core, everything-is-pre-cut-and-perforated world we've come to live in that a sturdy traditional blade in capable hands can't tackle.

-- Mark
 
A lot of those old knives were made when people were careful with a tool that might have cost more than a week's pay, but they didn't 'baby' them either. I think it's a testimony to their quality that so many survive in excellent condition. As for sheer toughness, I'd pit a WW2 British army clasp knife against any of my Spyderco or Cold Steel knives any day.

And with a single brush stroke, Jack nails it perfectly. :thumbup:

In our grandpa's time, these knives were used as pocket pocket knives. Cutting open a burlap grain sack of feed, cutting a piece of rope, cutting a 'chaw' off a thick plug of Kentucky twist, cutting a nice firm piece of chicken liver to go on a hook while cat fish hunting, cutting..., well you get the idea, it was a cutting tool. It was carried around in a pocket a lot, and used now and then for things that needed to be separated but was too strong to be ripped or torn apart. It was a dedicated cutting tool that was carried a lot, but used now and then. This is why handles were smooth curves that didn't wear holes on pockets of work overalls, or uniforms. These men took very great care of their tools, no matter if it was a set of wrenches, a hammer, screw driver, or wood plane. They didn't use a wrench as a hammer, nor a screw driver as a pry bar if there was a real pry bar in the tool chest. Oh yes, there were some of what the young guys call a 'hard use' knife around. Lots of servicemen came home with a Camillus TL-29 in a pocket, or an issue MKL, or what was called a demo knife. In the 50's and 60's I saw a lot of well worn old TL-29's that were still in use by the soldier who 'liberated' it from the army. My Uncle Charlie used his for decades, after he came home from a long walk from a beach in France to Germany. He only retired it when I came home on leave with a new 'libertated' Camillus TL-29 from our supply room. He was a bit disdainful of the new one's plastic handle though.

When grandpa went hunting, he took his 'hunting knife'. Sometimes it may have been a Case little finn with the stacked leather washer handle like I saw a great deal of growing up, or maybe one of those German stag handled Edge Pro's that were popular in the 50's. The hunting knife was made for the 'huntin' so it was used for such. Right tool for the job kind of thing. That was a popular mindset in those days, the right tool for the job. If you had something to do, and the pocket knife was small for the job, then you used a bigger took. A sheath knife, a machete, hatchet, was used.

My own dad was a perfect example of this. Before he left for school a few years before WW2, being the very first one in his family to do so, his mother gave him a nice little pocket knife that was more appropriate in her mind for a suit wearing academic of that era. The gift meant a lot to him because of the sentiment, so he used the knife gently as a cutting tool only. That knife went everywhere with him for the next 40 years, and he only retired it not long before his death from leukemia in 1981. It was a cutting tool. I grew up seeing him use that knife for all his cutting jobs that a pocket knife can be asked to do. But if it got too heavy duty, he had a cut down English machete he kept in his car that he called his bushwhacker. That was his 'heavy duty' knife. It had a 9 inch sheepfoot blade and a canvas sheath, and was the beater knife. Around the house he had a beat up Stanley utility knife for things he knew would mess up his mothers Case Peanut.

The old pocket knives that grandpa used ere marketed as fine cutting tools. They were not marketed as end of the world disaster tools, combat knives, survival knives, automobile crash rescue tools, or any other tool that could used for things an over active imagination could dream up. They were carried by delivery truck drivers, farm hands, tradesmen, warehouse clerks, paperboys, church deacons, and everyone who had a pair of pants on. And in those day, if a man had his pants on, you could make a good bet that a pocket knife was in there someplace. Probably the most common of all pocket knives I saw growing up, was the typical serpentine jack about 3 1/4 inches closed, with two blades. Somehow, with that kind of life, most men in the years before and after WW2 managed to live a good life, survive a war, and raise a family in the knew phenomenon of the American suburban landscape.

A good pocket knife will last you most of the rest of your life if treated like a knife.

Carl.
 
if I'm doing some prying cuts while carving,i hold blade pinched between my fingers it relives pressure on pivot and helps precision,
as mentioned before,knowing right technique and application for knife,will keep slippies long time in working condition.
 
And with a single brush stroke, Jack nails it perfectly. :thumbup:

In our grandpa's time, these knives were used as pocket pocket knives. Cutting open a burlap grain sack of feed, cutting a piece of rope, cutting a 'chaw' off a thick plug of Kentucky twist, cutting a nice firm piece of chicken liver to go on a hook while cat fish hunting, cutting..., well you get the idea, it was a cutting tool. It was carried around in a pocket a lot, and used now and then for things that needed to be separated but was too strong to be ripped or torn apart. It was a dedicated cutting tool that was carried a lot, but used now and then. This is why handles were smooth curves that didn't wear holes on pockets of work overalls, or uniforms. These men took very great care of their tools, no matter if it was a set of wrenches, a hammer, screw driver, or wood plane. They didn't use a wrench as a hammer, nor a screw driver as a pry bar if there was a real pry bar in the tool chest. Oh yes, there were some of what the young guys call a 'hard use' knife around. Lots of servicemen came home with a Camillus TL-29 in a pocket, or an issue MKL, or what was called a demo knife. In the 50's and 60's I saw a lot of well worn old TL-29's that were still in use by the soldier who 'liberated' it from the army. My Uncle Charlie used his for decades, after he came home from a long walk from a beach in France to Germany. He only retired it when I came home on leave with a new 'libertated' Camillus TL-29 from our supply room. He was a bit disdainful of the new one's plastic handle though.

When grandpa went hunting, he took his 'hunting knife'. Sometimes it may have been a Case little finn with the stacked leather washer handle like I saw a great deal of growing up, or maybe one of those German stag handled Edge Pro's that were popular in the 50's. The hunting knife was made for the 'huntin' so it was used for such. Right tool for the job kind of thing. That was a popular mindset in those days, the right tool for the job. If you had something to do, and the pocket knife was small for the job, then you used a bigger took. A sheath knife, a machete, hatchet, was used.

My own dad was a perfect example of this. Before he left for school a few years before WW2, being the very first one in his family to do so, his mother gave him a nice little pocket knife that was more appropriate in her mind for a suit wearing academic of that era. The gift meant a lot to him because of the sentiment, so he used the knife gently as a cutting tool only. That knife went everywhere with him for the next 40 years, and he only retired it not long before his death from leukemia in 1981. It was a cutting tool. I grew up seeing him use that knife for all his cutting jobs that a pocket knife can be asked to do. But if it got too heavy duty, he had a cut down English machete he kept in his car that he called his bushwhacker. That was his 'heavy duty' knife. It had a 9 inch sheepfoot blade and a canvas sheath, and was the beater knife. Around the house he had a beat up Stanley utility knife for things he knew would mess up his mothers Case Peanut.

The old pocket knives that grandpa used ere marketed as fine cutting tools. They were not marketed as end of the world disaster tools, combat knives, survival knives, automobile crash rescue tools, or any other tool that could used for things an over active imagination could dream up. They were carried by delivery truck drivers, farm hands, tradesmen, warehouse clerks, paperboys, church deacons, and everyone who had a pair of pants on. And in those day, if a man had his pants on, you could make a good bet that a pocket knife was in there someplace. Probably the most common of all pocket knives I saw growing up, was the typical serpentine jack about 3 1/4 inches closed, with two blades. Somehow, with that kind of life, most men in the years before and after WW2 managed to live a good life, survive a war, and raise a family in the knew phenomenon of the American suburban landscape.

A good pocket knife will last you most of the rest of your life if treated like a knife.

Carl.

Nice post Carl.

I also tend to use my pocket knives as you describe.
The old aluminium Stanley Utility knife is used for all my work around the house.
People tend to think that I am an eccentic for doing this.:D:D
 
I've put my knives through the ringer and they loved it. I cared a sodbuster and then an alox SAK when I did landscaping and I never needed the locking blade I carried, so I stopped carrying it. Like everyone else said, if you use it to cut, I cant see wearing it out in 10, 20 or even 30 years.
 
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