How useful is relying on FISHING in a survival situation?

P

Plainsman

Joined
Apr 5, 1999
Messages
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I would say most of us are guilty of "thinking" we can rely on fish for some part of sustenance in a survival situation. But how realistic is this line of thought?

For me, it is now, but it didn't always be that way. In actuality my old hunting spot was 10 miles away from the nearest fishing hole! In the other direction was a town at less distance!

This was in the prairie of ND. Given different terrain this may be even WORSE. Also, you have to consier WEATHER. In the dead of winter in many areas there aren't many ways for you to punch a hole in the ice if you find water. Also, it might be tough to find the ICE as if there has been HEAVY snowfall after a long cold spell. THe ice could be extremely thick AND covered by a LOT of snow.

Of course, the desert is almost self explanatory. Unless you know of a river...

Some things to consider. If you can think of others to add PLEASE do so!

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Plainsman :)
primitiveguy@hotmail.com


 
Hi Plainsman,

Once again we find that the environment were in plays a major role in how we prioritize and meet our needs. If you know the envirnment you are going into...you'd prepare for that....I use the "five survival essentials" as my guide to help me decide what to bring. remember the five needs:

Personal protection (clothing, shelter, fire),
signaling (manmade and natural),
sustenance (food and water),
travel (with and without a map and compass), and
health (psychological, environment, and traumatic issues).

In looking at food....I must first say it is a low priority to me as a survivor. After all you can go 30 ++ days without it. However, it sure does help increase moral when there is some to eat. As a minimum, I always carry snare wire, fish hooks, and a water balloon (there is more but...). When I think about fish, I am usually thinking about small trout that I can find in streams. you may have another scenario in your mind and once again...where you are may dictate what you are going after.

To get fish I may make a spear, use that 4 oz gill net someone else asked about, build traps (illegal), dangle lines with bait (squerril guts procured with my snares), or perhaps I would tickle them (catch with my hand...yes it can be done!).

So since I carry some fishing gear, a net, and have hands...I may be able to procure a fish or two...depends on what environment I'm in. I may have better luck finding and eating bugs/slugs.

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Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Hey Greg....

Talk about tickling...

It does work I've seen it dome first hand by my father..Something i have never forgotten...

Up until last year when I got to busy with work I use to do a pile of fishing...

Not far from our house is a bluegill pond,just loaded with nice sized fish of all types...

We use to hand a road killed what have you from a tree branch over the pond.
In a few days during the summer the animal was covered in maggots..

The maggots would fall into the waiting mouths of the bluegill now waitng underneath the animal by the school!

A good shake of the branch would cause a feeding frenzy and the water would actually boil with feeding fish....

This is called chumming and has been used across Europe in many different forms for a very long time...

Other ways of doing this is to toss handfuls of maggots or balls of compressed food into an area..
In the wild,,if this is done on a regular basis in the same spot,, you will get fish actually hanging around the area waiting for the next feed.

With this method,,using bait isn't even needed. All we used was a small piece of eletrical wire casing on a small hook. It looked kind of likea maggot,,so it wasn't passed up during the mayhem.

We got tons of fish out of that pond with little or no bait to speak of.

One must remember though that this method can taint a water source, and it shouldn't be done if the water has to be injested. Killing stagnant water should always be done anyway. Don't let the carcase fall into the water when doing this...

ttyle Eric...

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel

 
Normark,

That is such a great idea!!! And if you don't catch the fish ... you can eat the maggots :>) Thanks for sharing it.

The only chumming I have ever done was while hanging over the edge of a life raft in the magestic swells of the pacific ocean.

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
In the Upper Amazon, the meandering rivers frequently leave behind ox-bow lakes called cochas. The fish in these cochas, especially the small cochas that have never been fished, have grown fat and lazy; there is little selection pressure for being savvy. I have dropped in a hook baited with a piece of insect and caught my dinner within five minutes. Within fifteen minutes we have caught all the stupid fish, leaving behind the ones smart enough not to chomp on the first thing they see. There is nothing in the world like fresh cocha catfish smoked over an open fire in the jungle. :)
 
Greg, the concept that you can live for 30 days without food is quite misunderstood. Just try going for a week without food and see what you feel like. I once went on a two week fast (stupid thing to do for any reason). On the third and subsequent day, the ketone build up in your blood as your body consumes its energy stores (fat and muscle--not fat and then muscle) makes you feel really bad. Between the 7th and 14th day, your energy level is so low, all you want to do is recline--you couldn't walk downhill, much less up. About the 7th to 10th day, the lack of glycogen available for energy results in disorientation, a positively depressed, irritated emotional state, and a severe inability to make proper decisions.

Even if you find a little something to eat, it makes your body think more is coming and you actually feel worse after. The lack of vitamins and minerals (like sodium and potassium) will make your muscles cramp and upset your already screwed up metabolism. The lack of food with water in a hot environment could kill you a lot sooner than 30 days of you sweat all your electrolytes away.

I think decision making skills are hampered after as few as 2-3 days and gets worse from there on out. You may not die for up to 30 days but you'll seriously consider taking your own life before you waste away.

Under the concept of practicing the skills you need to survive before you need them, I would not recommend anyone practice fasting, but if you do, you will be surprised at how short a time passes before major changes occur in how you cope with the stress of survival.

Food may not be on top of the list of requirements for survival over the long haul, but once your immediate needs are met (first aid, shelter, water, etc.) food needs to be pushed up in priority. You never know how long it'll be till you find your way or are rescued. I never go into the woods (hiking, hunting, motorcycling, etc.) without a couple of peanut butter sandwiches and some granola bars in addition to whatever I take for regular meals.

Good luck,

Bruce Woodbury
 
Hi Bruce...

I kind of dissagree with your views on fasting...
Many cultures still practice it today,, as well as many natives..

I heard several times from people who have fasted that they feel very good although they are less prone to activity..

Fasting willingly is a lot safer than not having food and should always be monitered...

I think your body will adjust to not having food at a certain point, but after awhile I agree than it can become dangerous..

ttyle ric...

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel

 
Walks Slowly,

I totally agree, but man I can get burn out on eating fish down there...come to think of it, I can get burn out on eating everything down there. I'm always ready for a heart attack big mac when I get back stateside...just something about all that unhealthy cholestorol and grease
smile.gif


Jeff

------------------
Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
Normark & Jeff, these are not my views, although I do have a background that would be able to explain the science. This is my experience. What it shows us is that all people are different and one general statement about the bodies requirement for nourishment and the processes it goes through to sustain itself is bogus. Don't talk to me about other cultures and their experiences, what is your experience? Fast for two weeks and come back and tell me what happened. If you don't want to take food into the wilderness, so be it, but until you have experienced "everything" you teach, you are taking your students lives in your own hands and may be responsible for a life threatening outcome. Let me know how it works out, I'd be interested.

Bruce Woodbury
 
Bruce,

I think we agree but first let me blabber for a moment.

We operate on the rule of threes.
You can SURVIVE for
3 minutes without air
3 hours without shelter (under cold-wet conditions)
3 days without water
3 weeks without food
3 months without love
smile.gif


(see volume two of our videos)

The rule is meant to help assign priorities, nothing more. We all know of folks who have exceeded each of these categories (and cases where they died in under their allotted time)

Food. Though it is generally low on the survival priority scale I can tell you from my own experience that one week is where I lose the ability to do constructive work. I carry plenty of "survival muscle" (fat) but still the catabolism has limits that leave a person pretty much immobile. Under survival conditions (for me) I learned that at three days I was unable to sustain the high energy level output needed for travel in alpine environments. I rested a lot. At a week I had built a shelter and mostly just got up to get wood and pine needles. Then I tore into my food pack and fixed myself up over a 24 hour period. If I rewrote the rule of threes it would be

3 weeks of survival without food (in a life raft)

For those who say you need to learn to fast. I do fast. during the spring I do a 24 hour fast every two weeks and as I become used to it, I move that up to 48 hours or a 24 hour fast every week. I tried a bunch of different methods.

During other self punishing experiments I tried supplementation with 200-400 calories per day taken from the earth. Plant foods and fish (trout raw is about 70 Kcal per oz) This made me FEEL as if I could go on forever though I was VERY hungry. I now believe that for me, food is damn near essential in small quantities every day.

On our harshest trips we allow the students two power bars per day as food pack chow. Everything else is from nature.

Ron

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Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
This is a very interesting topic. It is a subject that I think one can get a better feel for here than elsewhere, and certainly in a more comfortable manner than actual experience. It is also a benefit to know how others have felt, survived, etc., in the event that one suddenly is forced by circumstances (choice or emergency) to fast. Reassurance can be very benificial.

Since everyone differs, it should be helpful to even those with personal experience, to hear other's experiences, and the medical complications that might arise either directly or indirectly. Indirectly, for an example, is it safe to use a knife when one has not eaten; are you too impaired?.

I have read that the body of someone that has acclimated to hot weather, such as Ron or a construction worker, actually requires less salt, than someone that is not used to the heat, as they do not sweat as much of it out. If this is true, it should be taken into account. (Any comments???) Perhaps a small combo-salt and pepper shaker should be part of one's emergency kit. Light, makes the found food tastier, and maybe absolutely necessary. I never cook with salt, but I generally live in an A/C envriroment, and ANY prepared or junk food will give you plenty.

I know someone who younger and in better shape than I am, collapsed on a golf course with cramping from depleted electrolytes. I know someone elso who was on a prescription diuretic, got somewhat nauseous and drank a lot of tea. They flushed out their electolytes and it was FRIGHTENING how disoriented they got, by the time the emergency room got around to doing anything. An I/V in the hospital had the person coherent in..estimating here...a 1/2 hour.

Ron, are you talking about the brand name Power Bar or in a generic sense? Ever tried the Complete Bar? I was taking a short hike, skipped lunch and had one. Seemed OK, edible but not so good that one is going to eat too many. I felt full afterwards...of course I was not too hungry to start with, and it was just part of the ambience.

I would like to know more about the equipment on your trips, but I'll start another thread called: Survival "Adventures" and the equipment taken.
 
The 30 day comment just means you can live that long it doesn't imply that you can function. the point is made simply to point out that it is a lower priority. We also say you can live 3 days without water. However, once dehydrated...well before you hit death...you will make very poor decisions which ultimately effect your ability to meet your needs...just like food deprivation will do.

Point is...the 3 day and 30 days I speak of only mean life they don't mean the amount of time before you are unable to meet your needs.

BTW, I went a 5 days and 4 nights without sleep during the same time I didn't eat (a little longer without food). We worked the whole 24 hours in 6 feet of snow, the whole time...meeting our needs. Everything from a new shelter everyday to killing, skinning, tanning, butchering, and making blood sausage from a goat, to keeping a large fire going, to making new elaborate ground to air signals, etc. You can't imagine the amount of caleries burned trying to warm the body and perform our duties. This was done on my first 22 day trip field trip during my instructor wanna be training. That's one of the reasons we started with 11 and ended with 3. It was very hard to go without food but the sleep deprivation was a lot worse!!!!!!

I have had many other week long experiences without food for a week but never as harsh.

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
Hey Bruce...

Sorry Bud..
Didn't mean to offend your,,,, Expertise on the matter..



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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel

 
Hey Bruce, hope you didn't take offense to my agreement and reply to Walks Slowly about getting tired of eating fish. Just becuase my post happens to be under Normark's doesn't mean I was replying or agreeing with him. Re-read the post before you get all upset.

I don't believe I mentioned anyone's 'culture and their experiences,' I was just talking about how good a Big Mac was after eating fish for 2 weeks
smile.gif
- Jeff

------------------
Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com

 
If I wasn't up to travel and had a decent fishing spot I would build a fish trap. Something simple where you drive sticks into the bottom. Where you find fish, the density is often a lot higher than for land mammals. It is easier to improvise a fish trap than most other capture techniques. combine this with something like the road-kill maggot chum, and you have something effective and low on energy requirements.
 
Hey Jeff...

So what you so bluntly saying is that you don't Agree with Me ???

Fine Be that Way !! LOL
smile.gif
~~~


Eric..

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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel

 
Hey Jeff..

Not you Jeff, The other Jeff, Jeff Randall.Didn't mean to bum you out Jeff..
smile.gif


TTYL,,, Jeff

Eric...
smile.gif


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Eric E. Noeldechen
On/Scene Tactical
http://www.mnsi.net/~nbtnoel

 
Generic Power bar. We let the students pick the bars they eat unless we want to make it really rough. In that case I give them Granola bars... IF they don't drink enough they get Greg sized blockages in their sigmoid colon.

Greg can tell you how to fix that.

I've had a number of problems over the years with hyponeutremia (sp?).... we bring electrolyte packages.

Ron

------------------
Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Ron...

You are going to break open my suture line. I'm laying here laughing my head off. You have to understand...as you know...the only reason I didn't post the BM issue was becouse my wife was standing over my shoulder. You know how she is "now Greg" :>)

If you tell the story make sure it sounds better than it really was. :>)))

Heck I'm allready laughing. BTW thanks for the call...that was very nice.

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
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