How well does CRK's s30v hold it's edge?

[Ankerson]

On what? You state that S30V is very "tricky" to heat treat, with the implied being it's either cheaper to do so or CRK isn't able to handle it.

I am not saying anymore.

You will need to find out for yourself.....

Things just aren't that easy and as cut and dry as you think...

Lets just hope S35VN is as good as we hope it is.

 

[pvicenzi]

It holds an edge good enough for me.

 

[JNewell]

I have no complaints about CRK's S30V. I haven't done formal comparisons but I would say that I have a pretty clear impression that my BG-42 Seb holds an edge longer (and, similarly, takes longer to resharpen) than the S30V blades. If I wanted a folder with Uber-Steel, I guess I'd carry one of the Spyderco S90V sprints or the Kershaw 110v Shallot. The Sebenza is...the Sebenza. I have been around long enough to think that my tools should make me happy when I use them, and the CRKs do. :thumbup:

 

[So-Lo]

I have both S30V and BG-42 from Chris, all I need is some rope and time :thumbup:

 

[missin_hobo]

Me too.

 

[Ankerson]

I have both S30V and BG-42 from Chris, all I need is some rope and time :thumbup:

You can come over and we can do it. :thumbup:

Won't take but a hour or so, sharpening and cutting.

 

[flipe8]

I can only presume this post is pure sarcasm or it's absolutely beyond preposterous ! I mean, do you sharpen your knives with a chainsaw ? or mayby you hang out the car window and sharpen them on the road at 70 mph........

Bench grinder....isn't that what everyone else uses?

 

[JNewell]

Bench grinder....isn't that what everyone else uses?

Yep, me too. I know I'm getting into the good part of the blade when the blade starts glowing orange.

 

[marthinus]

....that S30V is very "tricky" to heat treat....

Never mind that! Tempering and cooling all makes a difference and that is just as important.

I think the best will be to get a qualified metallurgist on this forum and let him explain everything that goes into a steel. Though I appreciate Ankersons test for me there are to many variables and I want to see till dull (though it will take very long and he knows my opinion).

S30V is a good steel. CRK might not do higher because they feel it is not part of the design. Just as there are people questioning lower HRC there are people that complained about chipping issues with higher HRC in S30V and therefore questioning it.

 

[Ankerson]

Never mind that! Tempering and cooling all makes a difference and that is just as important.

I think the best will be to get a qualified metallurgist on this forum and let him explain everything that goes into a steel. Though I appreciate Ankersons test for me there are to many variables and I want to see till dull (though it will take very long and he knows my opinion).

S30V is a good steel. CRK might not do higher because they feel it is not part of the design. Just as there are people questioning lower HRC there are people that complained about chipping issues with higher HRC in S30V and therefore questioning it.

Tempering is all part of the process, but it's the most important part and has to be done correctly.

The only ones testing until dull are those with CARTA machines from what I know, it's the only really accurate way to do it because of the force that would be needed.

 

[marthinus]

Tempering is all part of the process, but it's the most important part and has to be done correctly.

The only ones testing until dull are those with CARTA machines from what I know, it's the only really accurate way to do it because of the force that would be needed.

I agree that Tempering is part of the entire process but after talking to a knife maker here and wanting to do a course in knife making I realised that they talk about the HT, Tempering, Annealing and Cooling as 4 separate processes to give one a final product and there are so many ways of doing the things that can influence the final product.

The stuff becomes really complicated!

It would have been great if CARTA machines were cheaper!

 

[Ankerson]

I agree that Tempering is part of the entire process but after talking to a knife maker here and wanting to do a course in knife making I realised that they talk about the HT, Tempering, Annealing and Cooling as 4 separate processes to give one a final product and there are so many ways of doing the things that can influence the final product.

The stuff becomes really complicated!

It would have been great if CARTA machines were cheaper!

It can get even more complicated than that depending on the steel and what the HTer wants to accomplish. It can really turn into a real process.

 

[Gator97]

I don't own any BG-42 knives, though that does bring to mind a quote:

Ouch. In the other thread you were pretty upset about people making assumptions/forming opinions about certain knife without using it. I guess it's ok for you once in a while

Anyhow, about that quote you brought up:
It is obvious a machine was used in the test. Which, FYI, can hold the blade in a fixed position for unlimited amount of time, and won't be affected by fatigue.
Considering that the primary reason knife blades dull in normal use, is the edge deformation, and not the loss of metal due to wear, all that quote really tells you is that CPM S30V had higher wear resistance than BG-42.
Given let's say 30 deg inclusive angle, and the same user, let's say you, you will not be able to cut through 14K inches of cardboard, and the knife in your hands will get dull a lot quicker compared to catra machine or whatever other machine, because human had is very different. There is a very specific reason tool steels work fine in machines at max hardness, but are considered very brittle for most of the knife uses.

 

[Josh K]

Ouch. In the other thread you were pretty upset about people making assumptions/forming opinions about certain knife without using it. I guess it's ok for you once in a while

Anyhow, about that quote you brought up:
blah, blah, blah....

I quoted CRK. I was not saying that I this experience. I'm stating fact not opinion.

 

[DBH]

I have a few Sebs with BG-42 and a few with S30V. I think for me, BG-42 is easier to sharpen, stays sharpened longer, and I love BG-42. I have touched up all of my S30V sebs on a sharpmaker, and I have not encountered any chipping or big problems. I don't think is stays "sharp" as long. But, I enjoy the knives regardless. I am looking forward to trying out the S35VN when the funds allow and they start producing them.

 

[Gator97]

I quoted CRK. I was not saying that I this experience. I'm stating fact not opinion.

Well, in msg #32 you said:

S30V @ 58-59 RC out performs BG-42 @ 60-61 RC while still being tough and stainless.

W/o quoting anything. In another msg you did quote CRK, but again, all that says - S30V showed greater wear resistance, which (as you probably already know, after all those years on BF) doesn't equal to edge holding, just one factor to it.
Anyway, because machine could do it, doesn't mean the same knife will behave the same way in your hands.

Without enough information, it is hard to understand how "easy to sharpen" S30V at 58-59 HRC can still outperform "hard to sharpen" BG-42, in the test where mostly abrasive wear resistance was tested, considering that sharpening by definition is wearing a metal by abrasion.
Did the test knives have identical edges for example?

I have sharpened quite a few different alloys by hand, and there are some that are harder to sharpen at 60HRC compared to others at 63-64HRC. But, edge holding was on par too, except for the very thin angles.

 

[Josh K]

Well, in msg #32 you said:

W/o quoting anything. In another msg you did quote CRK, but again, all that says - S30V showed greater wear resistance, which (as you probably already know, after all those years on BF) doesn't equal to edge holding, just one factor to it.
Anyway, because machine could do it, doesn't mean the same knife will behave the same way in your hands.

Without enough information, it is hard to understand how "easy to sharpen" S30V at 58-59 HRC can still outperform "hard to sharpen" BG-42, in the test where mostly abrasive wear resistance was tested, considering that sharpening by definition is wearing a metal by abrasion.
Did the test knives have identical edges for example?

I have sharpened quite a few different alloys by hand, and there are some that are harder to sharpen at 60HRC compared to others at 63-64HRC. But, edge holding was on par too, except for the very thin angles.

The quote from CRK is what I was referencing, which is why I provided it later.

It seems like the majority of your questions would be better answered (with regards to more specific details like the test knives, conditions, edge angles, and whatnot) by someone at CRK. Why not give them a call?

 

[Gator97]

The quote from CRK is what I was referencing, which is why I provided it later.

I know. Point was, if you provided more than that, would've been better.

It seems like the majority of your questions would be better answered (with regards to more specific details like the test knives, conditions, edge angles, and whatnot) by someone at CRK. Why not give them a call?

Yeah, there were very long debates, few years before you joined. Feel free to read though
Based on your answer, I take you never had any of those questions?

 

[bhyde]

Interesting repeat of an earlier thread that I believe got closed....Will be interesting to see if history repeats itself.
One thing comes to mind and that is the very definition of insanity- Trying to persuade someone else into following your beliefs is basically the gist of it all.

 

[kawr]

Lets not turn this into another CRK sucks thread. Keep it strictly focused on the topic at hand which is how well CRK's s30v holds an edge.

My opinion is this. Me being a complete steel newb I cant see a huge difference between the two when it comes to edge holding. That being said I do see a difference in how fast it loses a sharp edge compared to my Spyderco S30V knives. I resharpen all my knives before they lose a working edge so I cant tell the difference if there is one between Spyderco and CRK in that regard (betting there is). Honestly I dont think CRK is catered towards steel junkies but more towards people who appreciate fine engineering and a tough overall knife. I'll admit CRK's selling point and strong point isnt steel but thats not what people buy them for anyway. Do I wish they would ht their S30V like Spyderco? Hell yes.