HSC /// Handforged Utility Hunter review (white steel!)

Natek - rise/run or scale problem with your pic.

A micro 15dps with tiny BET on a X (less than 15) dps adjacent to Y(less than X) dps (blade/primary grind) conjunct to blade thick ... up to 3/4" face length - which over estimated for how a 5/8 dia rope could interact (wedge; bind; steer; etc) with blade. So, a same blade grinded back (thicken) to new BET also thicken what above it. Yep, what above it need to stay the same per diff BET.

An optimal blade thickness could be the min BET of 15dps that can cut rope w/o failure.

edit: sorry for OT. No mas!
 
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edit: More interesting -> Hitachi white#2 is a high carbon (~1.15%C) low alloy steel, sure cementites are plentiful but these are wimp when compare to not too hard CrC (forget about harder carbides). Jim - your thoughts?

The steel is this exactly:

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Japanese-Shiro-2-Suminagashi-Steel.html

Other thoughts are the edge is VERY HARD, how hard exactly is anyones guess, I would say harder than 65 HRC (Guessing) and with the geometry tested it was very stable.

And it's a forged blade and laminated steel.....

Other than that all I can say is it did what it did on rope performance wise.

And yes I did test ending sharpness with my sharpness tester and it's in the range it should be by my growing database. (Not published)
 
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At present, we know that narrower edge shoulders improve cutting performance, but we don't have a good sense of how that relationship plays out. We don't have to do every steel, just one to see if we can at least loosely define how cutting performance changes with edge width.

And we never really will due to the extreme cost across the board added with the other variables.

Nobody is going to spend that kind of coin and publish it FOR FREE..... ;)

That will NEVER HAPPEN.
 
Yup, my guess also 65-66rc. I am curious whether this edge would survive a hard chop into African Blackwood or dried pin knotted pine.

Harbeer/HSC - how's chopping ability (15dps, 0.015" BET) of white #1 & #2 at 63+rc?

The steel is this exactly:

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Japanese-Shiro-2-Suminagashi-Steel.html

Other thoughts are the edge is VERY HARD, how hard exactly is anyones guess, I would say harder than 65 HRC (Guessing) and with the geometry tested it was very stable.

And it's a forged blade and laminated steel.....

Other than that all I can say is it did what it did on rope performance wise.

And yes I did test ending sharpness with my sharpness tester and it's in the range it should be by my growing database. (Not published)
 
https://vimeo.com/168501462

I really don't know. But this video is from early this year when I was experimenting. No damage to the edge.

Honesty I generally make thin slicers and don't really want my knives to be used in chopping fashion for the most part. :-)

I do want to make a large camp knife chopper in the future, however that edge will have a different geometry of course

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Yup, my guess also 65-66rc. I am curious whether this edge would survive a hard chop into African Blackwood or dried pin knotted pine.

Harbeer/HSC - how's chopping ability (15dps, 0.015" BET) of white #1 & #2 at 63+rc?

pardon me, I don't know what this means? - "0.015" BET"
 
Cool, nice job :thumbup:

What is the edge geometry of that knife?

https://vimeo.com/168501462

I really don't know. But this video is from early this year when I was experimenting. No damage to the edge.

Honesty I generally make thin slicers and don't really want my knives to be used in chopping fashion for the most part. :-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
thanks,

it's one of the very first laminated steel knives I forged, it's like a short paring or utility knife.
I just ground the bevel to expose the core and sharpened it.
Nothing scientific about it. It's about .05-.06 at the spine, flat ground, that's it.
 
The steel is this exactly:

http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Japanese-Shiro-2-Suminagashi-Steel.html

Other thoughts are the edge is VERY HARD, how hard exactly is anyones guess, I would say harder than 65 HRC (Guessing) and with the geometry tested it was very stable.

And it's a forged blade and laminated steel.....

Other than that all I can say is it did what it did on rope performance wise.

And yes I did test ending sharpness with my sharpness tester and it's in the range it should be by my growing database. (Not published)

I'm saying it's a 64 HRC but it's true I don't know the exact hardness point.
I'm trying to obtain some raw unlaminated white steel from Murray to do some hardness testing as a guide. I do have a hardness tester.

From my HT procedure -
The tempering is done almost immediately after pulling out of the quench. I use the aid of a Tempilstik marker. The tempering is very fast and there is no hold or soak at the temperature. The blade is brought up to temperature (checked with Tempilstik) and removed and allowed to air cool. The time to come up to temperature is only a few seconds, so you have to pay close attention.
I use a 350 deg F marker and now I also use a 400 deg F to make sure I don't go over,
This "auto-tempering in a short time is a Japanese method. It produces very hard edges. Hitachi steels produce such fine grain that this type edge works." (S. Apelt)
 
Glad you disclosed your temper process, which is the same as MC (btw - I've watched many of MC videos :D).

IME working with laminated white#2 & mono blue#2, went out of my way to check hrc :) Regularly get 66.5rc@400F (sub 5 minutes soak in ht oven), 66rc/400F (longer soak). Got similar hrc readings for 1084 and 1095. That's why I think, your blades 65+rc.

I'm saying it's a 64 HRC but it's true I don't know the exact hardness point.
I'm trying to obtain some raw unlaminated white steel from Murray to do some hardness testing as a guide. I do have a hardness tester.

From my HT procedure -
The tempering is done almost immediately after pulling out of the quench. I use the aid of a Tempilstik marker. The tempering is very fast and there is no hold or soak at the temperature. The blade is brought up to temperature (checked with Tempilstik) and removed and allowed to air cool. The time to come up to temperature is only a few seconds, so you have to pay close attention.
I use a 350 deg F marker and now I also use a 400 deg F to make sure I don't go over,
This "auto-tempering in a short time is a Japanese method. It produces very hard edges. Hitachi steels produce such fine grain that this type edge works." (S. Apelt)
 
I'm saying it's a 64 HRC but it's true I don't know the exact hardness point.
I'm trying to obtain some raw unlaminated white steel from Murray to do some hardness testing as a guide. I do have a hardness tester.

From my HT procedure -
The tempering is done almost immediately after pulling out of the quench. I use the aid of a Tempilstik marker. The tempering is very fast and there is no hold or soak at the temperature. The blade is brought up to temperature (checked with Tempilstik) and removed and allowed to air cool. The time to come up to temperature is only a few seconds, so you have to pay close attention.
I use a 350 deg F marker and now I also use a 400 deg F to make sure I don't go over,
This "auto-tempering in a short time is a Japanese method. It produces very hard edges. Hitachi steels produce such fine grain that this type edge works." (S. Apelt)


Would be interesting to see how it turns out. :thumbup:

If it's anything close to this one it will be a nice one.
 
Great stuff guys,



I don't think many understand how much goes into Jim's testing.

while my reviews focus on anecdotal evidence,

Jim is doing the grunt work for hard data.

its very boring and labor intensive.

Jim's secret is his consistency.

I've had several conversations with Jim.

I've been very impressed by his methods.

I dont think there is anyone else with the proper equipment, knowledge, skill and passion that Jim has for consistency with testing

Much respect.:thumbup:
 
When I received the Knife from Harbeer, I sharpened it on a 1k King stone with some stroping on a 6k King stone @ ~15dps.

(This is before the video reviews)









It was cutting news print with silky smooth ease.

Very exciting.

I can't elaborate in words how incredibly easy it was to achieve such sharpness.

Time for some Bushcraft testing






The bite in a piece of soft pine with a chest lever cut.

Great penetration.



Carvered very thin almost transparent feathers for tinder.




Time for some rough use cutting.

Using full strength chest lever cuts to clean up this piece of wood.




Here what I'm working with.




The Utility Hunter smoothed it out great and cut well.



Lots of various cutting. Feathersticks, notcthing, carving.


While the knife was still very sharp.

Some micro damage to the edge was observed.

15dps was too acute for this type cutting



There were some small deformations in the edge

The knife was still carving great though.

I stroped the edge with Flitz metal polish on leather.



Yet the damage was still there. This is not uncommon most knives need a hard stone to burnish the edge back in alignment.

I was able to remove the damage with my trusty ol' DC3-



-Using some stroping strokes with Both the worn diamond side and the brown ceramic.

It was time to find a better edge geometry for carving.

I reprofiled the edge to ~20dps using the king stones again.

Then it was back to testing.


I spent hours carving wood and looking for damage and testing on news article paper.


There was no damage to the edge.



And the knife stroped back to razor sharpness.


There was definitely a performance decrease with the steeper geometry but it's always a trade off.

The geometry is very thin. It's designed for hunting with some utility function as well.

In the hands of a capable hunter I can only imagine the performance since the edge geometry can be very acute.

Structure meets function.

Sharpness and durability are inverse relationships

You can't have both, You have to find the right balance for what the intended use is.

With a thin blade and a high grind

This knife pushes the redline for hunting performance.

While still capable of some Bushcrafting it doesn't have the geometry for wood carving Compared to more task specific designs. Yet thicker geometrys suffer when cutting soft materials

It's all a trade off

For carving wood, thickness is required behind the edge to help split the wood for the primary edge to continue cutting.

Here is quick comparison to a Bark River Gunny Elmax



Doing a spiral cut

This gives an example of the wedging and cutting effect we call "bite" in the wood.


The HSC utility hunter doent have as much bite and gets stuck due to the thinner geometry behind the edge.



While a very capable field knife it won't carve and blast through wood as efficiently as some thicker knives

Yet given a slicing task and this blade while outcut the thicker blades.

It's just simple geometry.



Dont get me wrong the HSC hunter is a very high performance and capable cutting machine.

It wont have any issues getting a fire going on a elk hunting trip.

And may be a better option for game processing then thicker wood carving knives.








The most memorable aspect about Harbeer's work is how amazing this white steel takes an edge.

It's definitely on of my favorites as seen on my laminated white steel Gyuto and Yanagiba.



There is nothing like it.

So sharp!

Great work Harbeer.


The Handle.





Throughout my testing with this blade I've grown very fond of the handle ergonomics.

It was very comfortable despite my large/xtra large hands.




There where no hotspot or tactical traction anywhere on the handles that would rip the skin off the hands from long periods of hard use.




The swell is very subtle but extremely comfortable with nicely contoured scales.

The guard was very well finished and was extremely comfortable even in different positions with hard use.







I'm also a sucker for aethitics. I love the red liners and the black Micarta.
Very stylish and we'll fit. Makes me drool hahaha



The guard is soldered with a low temperature solder. This takes alot of time and skill but is outstandingly durable and gives the knife a clean look.





The brass guard really "pops" with a nice polish.



The sheath will be a kydex pancake sheath. I wasn't provided with the actual sheath this model comes with since I wanted to get this knife in my hands as soon as possible.



Harbeer is still working on the sheath design.





In conclusion, for $375 one gets a handforged high performance knife that is also very pleasing to the eyes and hands.




Whether an avid hunter, Outdoorsman or collector.

This should be an exciting knife in anyone's personal line up.

You won't find a better sharpening knife with the same level of wear resistance.


I look forward to seeing more of Harbeer's work.

At $375 it's also a steal. The prices will only go up. :D







About Harbeer
.

A custom knife is nothing without knowing the hands behind its construction.

HSC /// stands for his full name "Harbeer Singh Chahal" with triple knife slash at the end.




Harbeer is a family man and a Professional by nature

Being a newer maker doesn't circumvent his life experiences as an engineer.

He is very mature and exudes professionalism during interactions

He first got into knives from collecting high end folders.

Terzola,rockstead.etc.

He started exploring knife making back in 2014.
But really started getting into it when he bought his first proper knife grinder in January 2015

In which he has greatly expanded his capabilities.

He's has received exposure from several makers to which he is very grateful to (David sharp, Ian Hall, Eric Kramer)

and guidance from Murray Carter and Mike Vagnino

He listed his first knives for sale this February 2016

He is always improving.

With a focus on laminated white steel for now. Harbeer hopes to settle on his own style and build relationships with his customers.

His most rewarding experience? Satisfied customers. 😁

Knowing that his knives bring joy from high performance and beauty.
 
Excellent review, Shawn :thumbup:

This knife so far performed very well. What kind of bone contact/impact/deflection this hunter knife edge supports? One can always dream of bagging an elk and quartering it :) And on the utility part - how does it fare whittling seasoned pin-knotted pine? Just wondering, so I would be glad to receive either guessing or actual tests.
 
Thanks Luong 😁


I wish I had the opportunity to test it on bone 😁

Also for wood carving, I didn't test it on knots or do any hardcore batoning.

It didn't seem like anything it would excel at so I didn't care to know.

So in Honestly, I can't tell.

I only had the knife for a week or so.

It's plenty tough for normal use.



In the future, I may have to try out more of Harbeer's work.

Thanks brother.

And thanks for all your information. :)

Shawn
 
great work @Harbeer, keep it up!
and thanks @Shawn for sharing some solid shirogami steel info with the forum, simple carbon low alloy is lovely stuff indeed!
 
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