HT question

S

SteelSnob

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Sep 7, 2009
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I'm wondering if Bos does the heat treat of the USA made Stockmans and the 420hc traditional knives? Thanks.
 
SteelSnob said:
I'm wondering if Bos does the heat treat of the USA made Stockmans and the 420hc traditional knives? Thanks.
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Depends on what you mean "does the heat treat"
Certainly Paul Bos developed the proprietary heat treat schedule that Buck uses and I would guess that he oversaw the purchase and installation of the equipment for the Idaho plant. He is a consultant on call. I highly doubt that he is actually an oven tender for every batch of blades.

The important things in heat treating are
-knowing the heat treat schedule (how long at what temp and how fast to heat and cool the blades).
-making sure the schedule is followed (this involves developing a standardized process)
-ensuring that the ovens hold uniform temperatures across the entire area containing the blades.
-making sure the loading pattern provides uniform heating of the blades.
These are the hard parts that require extensive knowledge and at Buck they have been overseen by Paul Bos.

Who actually pushes the "start" button is less of an issue.

In my opiinion, the 420HC blades have a Paul Bos heat treat.
 
When I was at Buck's plant I saw him in there working . Have you been to Buck's plant to know if theres truth to what you say ?
 
Guys, Only stepping in because he mentioned Stockmen.....

There was something I read recently, was it in a post or in the newsletter ??? That BOS had sort of his own area in the Buck plant ? I envisioned it as he was a sort of special renter but there to do work. Now that is what I envisioned or made up. I too have seen him in the factory and he was carrying a tray of knife blades and I stood at a door where the guide giving the tour said ...'this is the BOS heat treating area... we can't go in there'.
Just FYI 300
 
" #4 12-03-2008, 07:24 AM
CJ Buck
Moderator Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Post Falls, Idaho
Posts: 804

Paul Bos oversees our entire heat treat department, all metals including the 420HC. Paul finalizes every heat treat "recipe" or process for each steel and he does this through science, a lifetime of previous experience and trial and error. He trained the folks and they follow those processes, checking and carefully documenting those results at key stages to make sure the metal is taking the previous stage correctly (heat treat is a 3 stage process with high heat, followed by extreme cold, followed by medium heat).

Buck has invested in state of the art equipment and is one of the only US companies to still do our own heat treating because we do not trust anyone else to do it for us. We are the only company to consistently get the hardness we need out of 420HC so you get the wonderful corrossion resistance that comes naturally in the steel with enough hardness (without brittleness) to perform and hold an edge long enough to uphold Buck's reputation.

We decided not to mark the 420HC blades with the Bos flame so it would be a more special designation for the higher end custom steels but please know that the 420HC is heat treated under Paul's guidance.
__________________
CJ Buck
Buck Knives, Inc.
AKTI Member #PR00003"
 
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I hope someone with a better memory than mine can help out here.

I swear that I read that Paul was no longer with BKI. I'm pretty sure that I read it here, but I could be wrong. I've done a search,but so far I can't find where I read it.
 
300Bucks said:
Guys, Only stepping in because he mentioned Stockmen.....

There was something I read recently, was it in a post or in the newsletter ??? That BOS had sort of his own area in the Buck plant ? I envisioned it as he was a sort of special renter but there to do work. Now that is what I envisioned or made up. I too have seen him in the factory and he was carrying a tray of knife blades and I stood at a door where the guide giving the tour said ...'this is the BOS heat treating area... we can't go in there'.
Just FYI 300
Click to expand...

Could it be he has his own area because he does heat treating for others besides Buck there? It appears that at least up until a few years ago he did according to this link.

http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf
 
Buck_110 said:
knarfeng posts quality information on a regular basis. His posts are NOT filled with erroneous information. There is no reason to jump all over him like that! There are times when there is mis-information in what you say. How would you like to be jumped on like that, and asked if there's truth to what you're saying?
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I have been done like this only worse . Do I need to say who ? I posed a question I never said their filled w/ erroneous information . I'll let it go . DM
 
Buck_110 said:
knarfeng posts quality information on a regular basis. His posts are NOT filled with erroneous information. There is no reason to jump all over him like that! There are times when there is mis-information in what you say. How would you like to be jumped on like that, and asked if there's truth to what you're saying?
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Buck_110,

I agree 100% with your statement concerning knarfeng. He is an excellent poster who regularily provides good information esp. concerning steel. He was in this case offering his expert opinion IMHO.

But, I really don't think David was beating on knarfeng but rather asking what he based his opinion on. Maybe David's direct writing style is blunt at times but I feel strongly no disrespect was intended. :)
 
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Plumberdv said:
I hope someone with a better memory than mine can help out here.

I swear that I read that Paul was no longer with BKI. I'm pretty sure that I read it here, but I could be wrong. I've done a search,but so far I can't find where I read it.
Click to expand...

I remember something about that from last year I believe. I honestly felt it was being hushed up at time and wasn't really discussed on the forum. g
 
Mercy!
I actually thought I was clarifying DM's post rather than disagreeing with him. I thought he and I were saying the same thing.

However, David's question is fair enough. No, I have not been to the Buck plant. My answer was based on my knowledge of commercial heat treating operations and what it takes to heat treat metal to obtain a specific set of properties.

Among other things, the company I work for does heat treating. LIke Buck, we have trained heat treaters who actually run the ovens on a daily basis. We also have a heat treat engineer who has a masters degree in metallurgy. He oversees the process and spends a fair amount of time in the heat treat area, but he does not actually run the ovens. This is how commercial heat treating is done. It takes a certain amount of training to run the process (our guys train for 6 months before they are allowed to do it). It takes far more to set it up and oversee it, especially to develop proprietary times and temperatures as Buck does for their 420HC.

Steel Snob had asked if Paul Bos heat treated his knife. To a lot of folks, that means "did he run the oven?" And if that is your definition, then no, I don't think he did. But my opinion is that pushing the start button isn't the important part. The important part is developing the time and temperature profile plus making sure that those times and temperatures are followed. To me, every Buck knife gets a Paul Bos heat treat because Paul Bos has done that.

Note: my post is 100% in agreement with the post by Chuck Buck quoted by Plumberdv above.
 
I know one thing for sure, 420hc will cut the tip of your thumb when you are gutting a trout (tailrace fish).....as I did on the 31st. I hate finger tip cuts. Didn't realize I did such a good job sharpening either......edge got all six fish gutted, de-headed and fins cut off....and still sharp......ch
 
wow .. i will put my thoughts on this also
in So Cal- BOS did all strider's knives and other folks on pay basis
he has worked at buck long enough that he HTed the 3 dot 440c 110 blades
his old equiptment is still in so cal as also some one he trained..
new equipt was put in Idaho
i was in the back with Joe the days before the 20th meeting started
and seen Bos carting trays of blades also

he may not do every thing and most likely not every batch-
i seen some of his assistants or "apprentices"
and was told that he has his hands in it all the time
and still does experimentation and development work!
and in case of his sudden demise - say hit and KIA by a moose -
there is some one that he has trained to carry on ..

but that said
i can give you my supper chisum trail chili recipe
you will make better chili -
you may or may not make it as good as i do
heck you may do it better - who knows
So- MHO- if Bos ever leaves buck i do expect the HT to change some
in the mean time-
no one cooks steel like the BOS!!!
 
Paul Bos is an employee of Buck Knives- yes employee. That means we pay him a salary, even if it is only 75 cents an hour (just kidding on that last part- thought a bit of levity may be needed after reading some of the posts). Paul has trained most of our heat treat personnel (I say most because some of them were trained by people Paul has trained). Paul developed the processes we use for all of our steels. Paul also heat treats custom products (from custom makers) using the equipment at Buck; that is part of the arrangement with Paul. So, Paul does not actually "push the button" in many cases (on some he does- we don't want him to lose his touch) but Paul is involved in all of the heat treating that takes places if for no other reason than he developed the process. I have known Paul for about 30 years (I was just a kid but he was old even back then) and he has provided a tremendous service to Buck for longer than that, even when he was not an employee.

Bill Keys
Director of Manufacturing & Engineering
Buck Knives, Inc
 
Since I am first to travel by this this thread. A big thank you from all the above to Mr. Keys. When a Buck Co. employee can come on a thrread and state the facts it makes the cosmic flow align itself and we all get along, even better than we do usually.......most of the time......more than other forums anyway..... ~(; -)
300
 
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