"Hunting" with a Snub Nose .38

As a part-time RO at a local public range, I sold many a 642 & 442 - and then, if purse/bag carry permitted, the larger Hogue raplacement grips. The ammo chosen for practice/carry by those who still hated it's recoil, and needed a frugal/easily found ammo, was the UMC 130gr MC - I suggest the typical 148gr full LWC as a better 'stopper' - and with low recoil. Few were suggested to go immediately to the +P protectors - the 158gr LSWC(HP) or new short barrel Speer 135gr GDJHP. Simply stated, you have to be willing to practice with it, and a big kicker won't get a lot of range time. In practice drills of two shots to the trunk of a man-silhouette at 12 yd (Fixed handgun targets - the ideal such shooting for intuitive targetting should be a more realistic 3-7 yd.), the marksmanship improved drastically with the larger grips - and practice.

If you carry in a pocket holster, those boots are a requirement - and they should be put back on once some technique is learned. You will be shocked at the marksmanship capability of the snubby .38. I have shocked myself at how fast I can run the Steel Plate Challenge ranges - hitting five for five, ie, no misses - with my 642 stoked with my wimpy 125gr SPC plate pingers. Even pop cans and shotgun clays are good, somewhat reactive, targets for familiarization shooting. Simply stated, you must shoot your snubby - and often - to gain and keep proficiency. All practice sessions should end with carry-load shooting, even if very limited.

I agree with Clint Smith on many things, he is a great teacher, his 'Thunder Ranch' is a great teaching facility. You must understand, he is returning to revolvers - witness his 'T R' offerings from S&W. And - he looks at a handgun as a great way to fight to your shotgun or AR. Too bad for me - I own neither! My CCW is a revolver - quite often a 642 in a pocket holster - and I forget it's there. I have hiked with it - the Buck 110 in my back pocket gets a lot more notice by me and others, that Mika's holster breaking up the outline nicely, while offering a fast retrieval.

Sure, bigger and meaner would be better - but where to draw the line? As I said, I can easily go 'up' to a .44 Special 296... but, where do you stop? In the SE US, a .38 is great personal protection - and I feel fine toting one. If Bambi/Thumper - or their folks - presented and I was in a survival situation, you bet I would try a well-placed shot. It sure beats a pointed stick... unless it's a really big pointed stick! Practice...

Stainz
 
Sounds like you have a lot of trigger time on a snubby!

So, what accuracy standards do you think are adequate to carry it for trail defense?

.
 
Well...right now, I feel confident I could hit an oil drum at three feet--as long as I could use a bench rest! :eek::)

Actually, I've only had it a couple of weeks and have shot it twice. I learned to shoot my autos fairly well. I'm sure I'll do fine with some practice. On my second day out, I was putting 3 or 4 out of 5 onto a 9x12 plate rapid fire point shooting at 7 yards. Not great. Not horrible for a new gun, though. At this point, small game "hunting" is just a fantasy.
 
David E said:
So, what accuracy standards do you guys have for using a snubby for defense or small game?

I suggested all shots on a popcan at 15 yds.

Anyone else ?

.
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My standards are completely different for small game and defense.

For small game, one should be able to hit the head or at least the upper shoulder/neck/head region of a cottontail or squirrel.

A cottontail's head is about 2" in diameter, so one should be able to hit a target no bigger than 3" out to at least 10 yards. Most shots I have taken at small game with pistols have been within 15 yards.

For defense.... minute of torso has always been good enough for me, out to 20 yards. If shooting rapidly, I would hope to be able to keep all shots in a head-sized target out to 20 feet.

If using a snubby for this purpose, I would hope it had an exposed hammer with a spur, for more precise single action shooting.

Andy
 
Scott Free said:
I've never used shot shells. I can't imagine they would be effective beyond a dozen feet or so. Am I wrong? I'd throw a few in my pocket if I am.
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No, you're not wrong. A lot of people think a shotshell in a snubnose doth a 12 gauge make. :rolleyes:

They're good for about 10-12 feet, just where you'd need to shoot a snake with it.

Forget about duck hunting with it !

.
 
Andrew Colglazier said:
My standards are completely different for small game and defense.

For small game, one should be able to hit the head or at least the upper shoulder/neck/head region of a cottontail or squirrel.

If using a snubby for this purpose, I would hope it had an exposed hammer with a spur, for more precise single action shooting.

Andy
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Of course the two uses requires a different degree of accuracy, no argument.

While a single action capability makes it easier, with properly executed technique that has been fine tuned with practice, single action isn't needed.

.
 
The 642 is a great little self defense gun. My wife has one, and I am reasonable accurate with it. I would not use it for hunting though, but in a survival situation it that's all ya got that's all ya got. For small game I carry my Ruger MK II when trekking in th woods. In bear/lion country a GP100.
 
Andrew Colglazier said:
If using a snubby for this purpose, I would hope it had an exposed hammer with a spur, for more precise single action shooting.
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For precise shooting with a closed hammer revolver, do this:

Put your finger into the trigger guard far enough that the second pad of your finger rests on the trigger. Crook your trigger finger toward the frame of the gun and pull back until the tip of your finger touches the frame, then stop. Squeeze off the shot when you're ready.

This comes from a Jerry Miculek tip that I found here: http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html
 
I live in Washington and spend a lot of time in the forests. I used to carry a .22 pistol until someone asked me why? I can not legally take small game. In a survival situation I really do not need food. So for self protection. Then that some one (county SWAT team member) said "If you NEED a gun, you REALLY NEED a gun". I now carry a .357 SW 60 w/ 3" barrel loaded with 180 gr. Nosler Partition hunting bullets. I can hit what I shoot at. I feel confident against people, cyotes, dogs, and cougars. Those are the real threat where I hike. If I were to encounter a large bear (unlikely) I would not feel confident even with my 7.5" 44 mag. I would want my ELK rifle. So I compromise. My hunting buddy shot a 300 lb black bear with a 30.06. Took 6 shots (all lethal) to "stop" the bear. A .38 would create a scarry situation. A .22 is for fun and fantasy survival. (Actually in a very long term survival situation the .22 with a bunch of ammo might be a good idea.)
Ron Athay
 
Scott Free said:
For precise shooting with a closed hammer revolver, do this:

Put your finger into the trigger guard far enough that the second pad of your finger rests on the trigger. Crook your trigger finger toward the frame of the gun and pull back until the tip of your finger touches the frame, then stop. Squeeze off the shot when you're ready.

This comes from a Jerry Miculek tip that I found here: http://www.shootingusa.com/PRO_TIPS/MICULEK4/miculek4.html
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That works OK, but it's not the best way IMO. I prefer to do what is known as 'staging'. I was taught this method at MSG School only we used Model 19s that have an external hammer. We were only allowed to fire by staging and our class average was something like 335 out of 400. That was with 160 students, most of whom had never fired a handgun. I'd never heard of the method before, but a week on the range made me a big believer in it....I'll never cock a hammer on a DA revolver again. I can pick up a revolver I've never handled and get the feel of staging it with maybe 30 seconds of practice now.

If you pull the trigger back you'll find a point where it "stages"....i.e. it sort of stops and then takes a much lighter pull to drop the hammer. You can hold it at the staging point with little effort. Practice staging the trigger over and over but don't pull it all the way through. If you do it enough times it shouldn't take you long to get the hang of it.

You can do this sitting down watching TV...you don't need to look at the weapon. It's all about feel. You want to work on it over and over until it becomes second nature.
 
The .38 stubby is more likely to ward off the bear by the noise it makes rather then any physical damage it can do, due to accuracy and caliber, to a full grown charging (which is most often a bluff charge) black bear. ;)
 
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BlackHills said:
That works OK, but it's not the best way IMO. I prefer to do what is known as 'staging'.
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I'm not going to tell Jerry Miculek he's wrong, but I agree with you here.

It's not that hard to do and results in single action type accuracy.

Just the other day, a friend was showing me his newly acquired S&W Model 37. I checked it and pulled the trigger a dozen times without dropping the hammer a single time. My friend was amazed at the utter dexterity I displayed.......which waned quite a bit when I got him doing the same thing with just a minute or two of instruction.

It's a very valuable method of shooting a DA revolver for difficult shots.

.
 
David E said:
Originally Posted by Scott Free View Post
I've never used shot shells. I can't imagine they would be effective beyond a dozen feet or so. Am I wrong? I'd throw a few in my pocket if I am.
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No, you're not wrong. A lot of people think a shotshell in a snubnose doth a 12 gauge make. :rolleyes:

They're good for about 10-12 feet, just where you'd need to shoot a snake with it.

Forget about duck hunting with it !
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Agreed. You're not wrong at all. But the shotshells are good for snakes, frogs, small birds that you can't reach or hunt otherwise. I would think that 12 feet is about right. My father used shotshells in a SW 36 snubby or 22mag derringer to kill watermocs in our creek at that range so I'm sure it works at a very short distance.

I'd like to see these guys who can make headshots on a squirrel or rabbit at any appreciable distance with a snubby. My firearms instructor just won a national championship at the police games a few months ago and he laughed when I brought it up.Perhaps we have some REAL expert marksmen on this board.
 
Based on my own shooting ability (so far) with a snub, I'd tend to doubt the squirrel and rabbit hunters, too. Based on seeing some of the shooting my dad can still do at 74, I know it's totally possible.
 
nemoaz said:
I'd like to see these guys who can make headshots on a squirrel or rabbit at any appreciable distance with a snubby. My firearms instructor just won a national championship at the police games a few months ago and he laughed when I brought it up.Perhaps we have some REAL expert marksmen on this board.
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The distance I mentioned was 15 yds, minute of popcan. That's very possible. I never mentioned headshots at any distance, but if you can hit a popcan at 15yds, then you can hit a rabbit or a squirrel. Maybe not in the head, but the shot will anchor him for the pot.

If your firearms instructor thinks hitting a popcan @ 15 yds with a snubby is impossible or nearly so, then he needs some trigger time on a snubby!

.
 
David E said:
Of course the two uses requires a different degree of accuracy, no argument.

While a single action capability makes it easier, with properly executed technique that has been fine tuned with practice, single action isn't needed.

.
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I should have been clearer; defensive shooting should be double action. Hunting, single action.

Andy
 
for small game wadcutters are hard to beat and inexpensive. I don't care for shotshells except maybe in snake country. for larger game i really think you're a little undergunned. any .357 from a very short barrel is just going to annoy a large bear. just my opinion.
 
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