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Russ, I'll have to check with him, thinking it's around 16 gpm. But the key here is the fact it's a 'single stage' pump.
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Hydraulic Press recommendation..?
- Thread starter Russ Andrews
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16 gpm single stage would require like a 20 hp motor fwiw, so I'm guessing it's something smaller.
I think the approx max you can get away with using a 10 hp single phase motor is roughly 8-9 gpm, without checking the calculations.
I believe that's what Larry was running on his press builds, and even though they were only 18 or 20 tons, they moved metal much faster than any press I've seen in the 35 ton range.
A friend of mine has a 150, that's not super fast, it's interesting because it's got all the ass in the world to push, but it has big dies, seems to cool metal fast, and will shear welds if you're not careful. Too much power, not enough speed IMO. When it starts bogging, your billet is ruined.
I think the approx max you can get away with using a 10 hp single phase motor is roughly 8-9 gpm, without checking the calculations.
I believe that's what Larry was running on his press builds, and even though they were only 18 or 20 tons, they moved metal much faster than any press I've seen in the 35 ton range.
A friend of mine has a 150, that's not super fast, it's interesting because it's got all the ass in the world to push, but it has big dies, seems to cool metal fast, and will shear welds if you're not careful. Too much power, not enough speed IMO. When it starts bogging, your billet is ruined.
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Also want to add: Personally, I'd rebuild the one you've got, and then take some time to decide if you need to make a change/upgrade later. Everything should survive the fire besides the motor, hoses, pump, fittings. So for a few hundred dollars, you could be up and running again, and likely much faster than buying a new one.
Worst case, spend the money on a bigger motor to power a single stage pump, and you'll have a big upgrade for still significantly less.
Worst case, spend the money on a bigger motor to power a single stage pump, and you'll have a big upgrade for still significantly less.
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- Oct 3, 2002
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Javan, that's ringing a bell a little way back in my memory. I built my press over 15 years ago and forgot most it. I remember talking with Cliff when he added the single stage pump and thought it was interesting, but figured he was exaggerating. A few years later I had the chance to run his press and was blown away at how much stronger it was than mine. Both 5 hp motors and 5" cylinders.
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Yes, it's pretty impressive, and it's how all the industrial presses are built. People don't realize (I didn't) how much lost work (heat) is happening during the transition from lo to hi on the pumps. It doesn't matter on a log splitter, which those pumps are designed for, which regardless, any press is better than none, and adapting those log splitter designs was ingenious and accessible, but it's far from ideal.
The drawback of course, is the high motor HP required to push the single stage pumps in optimal speed.
FWIW though, the two stage pumps are doing the same thing.. What most don't realize is that the high pressure mode on the usual log splitter pumps, is anywhere between 2.5-4 gpm (and varies by pump at the same "GPM" rating. i.e. 13 and 16 gpm pumps by different manufacturers will have different high pressure gpm ratings). All that low pressure number gets you is fast adjustment before you're doing any real work.
If you get a single stage pump between 1.5 and 2 IPS or higher, you're plenty fast to make adjustments as long as you don't leave your ram retracted between heats, but you're moving the metal at that speed from the dies touch.
On the other hand, with a 16 gpm pump that's 3 or 3.5 gpm in high pressure mode, with 5 or 6 inch cylinders you're moving between 0.5-0.7 IPS, after you've already wasted a half a second on the transition with full die contact. Extra tonnage will help you move this cooling mass longer, but isn't necessary if you move it fast in the first place. That's why a lower tonnage, faster pump can significantly out work the opposite.
It makes lots of sense when you think about it.
The drawback of course, is the high motor HP required to push the single stage pumps in optimal speed.
FWIW though, the two stage pumps are doing the same thing.. What most don't realize is that the high pressure mode on the usual log splitter pumps, is anywhere between 2.5-4 gpm (and varies by pump at the same "GPM" rating. i.e. 13 and 16 gpm pumps by different manufacturers will have different high pressure gpm ratings). All that low pressure number gets you is fast adjustment before you're doing any real work.
If you get a single stage pump between 1.5 and 2 IPS or higher, you're plenty fast to make adjustments as long as you don't leave your ram retracted between heats, but you're moving the metal at that speed from the dies touch.
On the other hand, with a 16 gpm pump that's 3 or 3.5 gpm in high pressure mode, with 5 or 6 inch cylinders you're moving between 0.5-0.7 IPS, after you've already wasted a half a second on the transition with full die contact. Extra tonnage will help you move this cooling mass longer, but isn't necessary if you move it fast in the first place. That's why a lower tonnage, faster pump can significantly out work the opposite.
It makes lots of sense when you think about it.