I bought a HT oven in eBay, good deal or...?

FredyCro

FredyCro

Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
1,484
Basic data

Model: Nabertherm Mod.L47
Made: 1977
Internal dimensions: 250x100x380 mm
Max temp: 1100°C
Power: 3.300w, 230 v

It seems to be in good condition and serviced at least once in last 5 years.

The seller described it as in good working condition.

I am completely in uncharted teritory here, I paid 380 euro (+shipping) and think that is good price compared to new machine of similar size and power?

Here are the pics. Will I be able to use as it stands? Should i add an external thermometer to double check the temp? Add a digital control?

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It is usable, but I'm not sure if it is programmable. The control dial sets the % of ON/OFF time. You have to watch the temperature and adjust the ON/OFF % as needed to get to a specific point. Then you have to watch it and adjust down a tad if it tries to climb higher. The push buttons for control are not familiar to me, so maybe they are some sort of simple controller that works with the red arrows.

I didn't see the TC, but I assume it was provided. I think it inserts through the hole in the back.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
It is usable, but I'm not sure if it is programmable. The control dial sets the % of ON/OFF time. You have to watch the temperature and adjust the ON/OFF % as needed to get to a specific point. Then you have to watch it and adjust down a tad if it tries to climb higher. The push buttons for control are not familiar to me, so maybe they are some sort of simple controller that works with the red arrows.

I didn't see the TC, but I assume it was provided. I think it inserts through the hole in the back.
Click to expand...

The arrow pointing straight should be for keeping the oven at the set temperature. The arrow pointing down turns off the oven after the set temperature is reached. No Tc included from what I can say.
 
if it works I would replace the actual control with a PID temperature controller, thermocouple and a solid state relay. Will fast forward it to a current generation oven.

Pablo
 
Nabertherm are high quality industrial appliances. Get a separate way to check temp and consistency though, to see how it performs.
As Pablo said, to upgrade if needed get a digital controller (I use german Bentrup) and if you're changing the thermocouple, go for a S-type and not K-type. S-Type doesn't wear out in the same way like K-type TCs do.
And you probably know this: you need a 16A fuse and 2.5mm2 wireing from it to the kiln.
 
PEU said:
if it works I would replace the actual control with a PID temperature controller, thermocouple and a solid state relay. Will fast forward it to a current generation oven.

Pablo
Click to expand...

Thanks, I was hoping to be able to use it as and upgrade down the line.

Scaniaman said:
Nabertherm are high quality industrial appliances. Get a separate way to check temp and consistency though, to see how it performs.
As Pablo said, to upgrade if needed get a digital controller (I use german Bentrup) and if you're changing the thermocouple, go for a S-type and not K-type. S-Type doesn't wear out in the same way like K-type TCs do.
And you probably know this: you need a 16A fuse and 2.5mm2 wireing from it to the kiln.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I saw the company still exists and does industrial grade stuff, so I thought it would be a good basis and possible to upgrade later.

I know the terms from diy ovens in YouTube and many threads here, but generally I am clueless regarding electricity.

From what I saw the upgrade wouldn't even be that expensive. How do I know if my HT element are compatible with the parts I need to order?

And finally, is there a cheap way to double check the temperature? Could I use a PID and a controller just as a thermometer before I figure out and find someone to wire it all up.

Finally there is all other items for HT I will need, knife stand, tongs, aluminium press, oil and so on.. If any of you have any links to usable stuff available in Europe, I would be grateful. I will start researching all this asap.
 
You can buy a digital PID and a separate k-type TC to double check temp. Most PIDs sold now days will have a simple schematic on the side. Just supply power to the two specified power terminals (often 110 OR 220) and hook up your TC to it's two terminals (make sure polarity is correct). You may have to set a couple of parameters on the new PID, such as the TC type you're using, the output (F or C), and the upper temp reading limit. The manual will tell you what all the default settings are as well as how to change them.

When it comes time to upgrade, that's fairly straight forward too. The new PID may actually fit the square opening that your current dial controller fits in. You may even be able to use the same relay that's already inside the control box, though you may want to just swap it out to a new SSR while you're in there. The last "kit" I bought from amazon had an SSR already mounted to a heat sink with thermal paste, so I didn't have to do much of anything to install it, other than mount it and hook up the wires.
 
Drew Riley said:
You can buy a digital PID and a separate k-type TC to double check temp. Most PIDs sold now days will have a simple schematic on the side. Just supply power to the two specified power terminals (often 110 OR 220) and hook up your TC to it's two terminals (make sure polarity is correct). You may have to set a couple of parameters on the new PID, such as the TC type you're using, the output (F or C), and the upper temp reading limit. The manual will tell you what all the default settings are as well as how to change them.

When it comes time to upgrade, that's fairly straight forward too. The new PID may actually fit the square opening that your current dial controller fits in. You may even be able to use the same relay that's already inside the control box, though you may want to just swap it out to a new SSR while you're in there. The last "kit" I bought from amazon had an SSR already mounted to a heat sink with thermal paste, so I didn't have to do much of anything to install it, other than mount it and hook up the wires.
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Sounds good, I saved some items when researching this and will post them here for your feedback before buying them.

I will try HT some carbon steel with cannola oil, melting salt and magnetism test before going full out (tc, pid, quench plates, knife rack, foil).

What can I expect regarding getting the oven to temp for HT stainless steel at this wattage?
 
Also what kind of elements are there, are there wire coils in those tubes we see or is it something else?
 
FredyCro said:
Sounds good, I saved some items when researching this and will post them here for your feedback before buying them.

I will try HT some carbon steel with cannola oil, melting salt and magnetism test before going full out (tc, pid, quench plates, knife rack, foil).

What can I expect regarding getting the oven to temp for HT stainless steel at this wattage?
Click to expand...

FredyCro said:
Also what kind of elements are there, are there wire coils in those tubes we see or is it something else?
Click to expand...

My oven takes about an hour or so to get to stainless temps. It's quite a bit faster to only 1475F, though it slows down considerably a little bit beyond that. As for the elements, I would imagine there are some NiChrome or Kanthal coils inside those tubes.
 
I would go for Amazon stuff with S-type TC to combine shipping. What do you think?

Is compressor also absolutely necessary for HT stainless? Would a small compressor or canned air also work?

PID

- MYPIN TA4-SNR PID Temperature Controller With 1 alarm DT @ 33$ incl shipping (coming from Taiwan) OR
- PID Temperature Controller MC901 Digital PID Temperature Controller K Type PT100 Sensor Input Relay SSR Output @ 24 € from Amazon


TC

- WRP-100 S-Type Platinum Rhodium Thermocouple 300 mm Temperature Sensor Head 0-1300 °C Measuring Range @ 25 € from Amazon OR
- Sharplace 100 mm Spade K-Type Thermocouple Temperature Controller Thermocouple Sensor -100 °C to 1250 °C Probe 3 M @ 7 € from Amazon

SSR

- Kkmoon 24 V/380 V 40 A SSR/40 Da Solid State Relay Module Relay Module for PID Temperature Controller 3 32 V DC AC @ 13 € from Amazon

Other HT stuff

B&T Metall Aluminium precision cast plate, 20.0 mm thick, finely milled and foiled on both sides, size 100 x 400 mm (10 x 40 cm).

Long Nose Self Grip Pliers, 380 mm

Silverline 138785 Woodworkers Vice 3.5kg 150mm

Stainless foil from nordisches handwerk or Brisa (seems cheaper and also available per meter).
 
FredyCro said:
I would go for Amazon stuff with S-type TC to combine shipping. What do you think?

Is compressor also absolutely necessary for HT stainless? Would a small compressor or canned air also work?

PID

- MYPIN TA4-SNR PID Temperature Controller With 1 alarm DT @ 33$ incl shipping (coming from Taiwan) OR
- PID Temperature Controller MC901 Digital PID Temperature Controller K Type PT100 Sensor Input Relay SSR Output @ 24 € from Amazon


TC

- WRP-100 S-Type Platinum Rhodium Thermocouple 300 mm Temperature Sensor Head 0-1300 °C Measuring Range @ 25 € from Amazon OR
- Sharplace 100 mm Spade K-Type Thermocouple Temperature Controller Thermocouple Sensor -100 °C to 1250 °C Probe 3 M @ 7 € from Amazon

SSR

- Kkmoon 24 V/380 V 40 A SSR/40 Da Solid State Relay Module Relay Module for PID Temperature Controller 3 32 V DC AC @ 13 € from Amazon

Other HT stuff

B&T Metall Aluminium precision cast plate, 20.0 mm thick, finely milled and foiled on both sides, size 100 x 400 mm (10 x 40 cm).

Long Nose Self Grip Pliers, 380 mm

Silverline 138785 Woodworkers Vice 3.5kg 150mm

Stainless foil from nordisches handwerk or Brisa (seems cheaper and also available per meter).
Click to expand...
I do not use air with quench plates. The 20mm thick quench plates you linked may be a bit on the thin side. I mounted my plates in a quick release vise with a piece of rubber sheet in between the plates and the vise so the plates can align themselves to some degree. The quick release feature is really useful.
 
Hubert S. said:
I do not use air with quench plates. The 20mm thick quench plates you linked may be a bit on the thin side. I mounted my plates in a quick release vise with a piece of rubber sheet in between the plates and the vise so the plates can align themselves to some degree. The quick release feature is really useful.
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The aluminium is machined so it should need no realigning? I saw that most people use 1", I could go up to 25 or 30 mm, but they are also on the large side (40x10cm) so that should help with heat distribution? Do you have a pic or a link on a quick release vice you are using? Thanks.
 
FredyCro said:
The aluminium is machined so it should need no realigning? I saw that most people use 1", I could go up to 25 or 30 mm, but they are also on the large side (40x10cm) so that should help with heat distribution? Do you have a pic or a link on a quick release vice you are using? Thanks.
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I think the alignment is not so much about the flatness of the plates (I just used raw aluminum and did not machine it flat). The vise jaws on woodworking vises are often not perfectly parallel, and the blades might not be either. I saw a post by JT about the rubber spacer and pretty much just copied his setup. Works well.

The vise I use is a Yost M7WW. It is currently around $70 on amazon. Not sure if it is available in Austria.
 
You can just use the aluminium blocks with 2 hand clamps too, less expensive and usefull around shop for other things too.
 
I think I need to suck it up and buy once. Thats why I am putting the list together to see what all the cost together would be. Any opinion on the items for the oven, should all be compatible?
 
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