I bought a TiLock

Joined
Sep 3, 2006
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And I returned it.

It came in the new packaging.

The allen wrench, lube and locktite were missing.

It was then I found out that CRK doesn't want the owner to disassemble this particular model. (Then why send me Sebenza packaging on a $475 knife?!?)

Fail.
 
Maybe a fail would be to charge you 20 bucks more for engineering a custom box to fit a knife they sell in very limited quantities. Seems a bit extreme to get so upset over some holes in the foam, and if you buy lube, or have extra Allen keys, you can store them there. I just bought a 17,000 dollar infrared camera for my work. It came with a box that had extra holes for the different lenses that it did not come with. I did not think 'fail' and send it back to FLIR. Sometimes the 'prima donna' in all of us needs a little bit of a spank don't you think? .....no offense....:-) :-)
 
$20 to "engineer" a box with foam in it?

Get real.

How about a preprinted note in the box explaining the lack of supplies and the reason for their absence?

Unlike your camera, CRK's are known for including the aforementioned parts.

When they are missing we notice.

When I open a FLIR I expect to see the extra holes. (Yes, I know what they are)

My bad for not researching the TiLock in detail before purchasing it.

Note to those thinking about buying a TiLock: CRK does not want you to disassemble this folder! There, they won't tell you this on their website so I will.

Besides, I took the $475 and bought a really nice custom that I like much better than any CRK I've ever had.

I'm kind of happy about the fail. :) :)
 
I wasn't aware that CRK discouraged disassembly on the TiLock... Where did you learn of this?

From CRK themselves.

They told me to send it in if I ever want to clean it up, or lube it, or, whatever.

They seemed think it is too technical to put back together. I haven't met a folder yet that was too hard for me to properly disassemble/assemble/ adjust. Its a fairly simple folder.

I may not care if I void my warranty on a $150 Benchmade, but if I void it on a $475 knife, that's a different matter.
 
From CRK themselves.

They told me to send it in if I ever want to clean it up, or lube it, or, whatever.

They seemed think it is too technical to put back together. I haven't met a folder yet that was too hard for me to properly disassemble/assemble/ adjust. Its a fairly simple folder.

I may not care if I void my warranty on a $150 Benchmade, but if I void it on a $475 knife, that's a different matter.

Maybe it has something to do with the caged bearing system that's in there. I know if you crank those down to tight you'll mash flat spot on the balls and get a rough knife. They might just be covering their arses, as some people are not as technically inclined as others. Interesting info regardless. To me it seems CRK is just trying to minimize the production and shipping costs of the knives. Having one type of box on hand, and a "one size fits all foam" cut-out makes it easy. Bearcut, I was just surprised how offended you appeared to be over this, that's all. Takes all kinds to make the world go round, and I'm glad of that. Keeps the discussions alive more-so than if we all agreed on everything.
 
Bear--I am sorry you were turned off of CRK by this experience. I wouldn't be a happy camper either if I had bought one without knowing the policy on disassembly. That's one of the many, many reasons CRK is my favorite knife company.

I am not a TiLock kind of guy anyway...

Hopefully, the bitter taste leaves your mouth soon and you come back and drink of the pure waters of the Sebenza.
 
Thanks,
CRK dropped the ball on this one.

What really burned me was the lack of disclosure in the entire process from marketing, (CRK website), to the “finished” product. Like I said, they could have at least included a note in the box about the missing pieces and their policy regarding the TiLock. Just too busy I guess.

Evidently, the dealer had been through this before because he told me that he was going to have me talk directly to CRK about the issues. (The dealer was great, I have no problem with them)

I’ve had several CRKS, including a Seb, so I thought I knew what to expect. I’m currently down to a Mnandi right now.

If CRK offers a small Seb 25 in CF I might be interested again. Or not.
 
I would say if crk would email you a shipping label so you didn't have to fork up the cash everytime you wanted to clean and lube that would be nice. But being the most expensive base model they offer I would not like to spend 15 bucks everytime I wanted to clean and lube. I have a 25 and two 21's and love they fact I can do it all myself.
 
$20 to "engineer" a box with foam in it?

Get real.

How about a preprinted note in the box explaining the lack of supplies and the reason for their absence?

Unlike your camera, CRK's are known for including the aforementioned parts.

When they are missing we notice.

When I open a FLIR I expect to see the extra holes. (Yes, I know what they are)

My bad for not researching the TiLock in detail before purchasing it.

Note to those thinking about buying a TiLock: CRK does not want you to disassemble this folder! There, they won't tell you this on their website so I will.

Besides, I took the $475 and bought a really nice custom that I like much better than any CRK I've ever had.

I'm kind of happy about the fail. :) :)


No, not really. For years they would include a single Wera allen wrench with their knives. The original Umnumzaan, with the proprietary pivot, did not come with the necessary tools or necessary loctite for disassembly/reassembly.

The inclusion of tools, grease, and loctite is a very new and addition. The price did not change when they started including it, either.

Fact remains, many high (and low and middle) end manufacturers automatically void their warranty with disassembly. They do that for a reason.


There should be no reason to repeatedly disassemble a bearing-pivot knife anyway.




I have to ask though. Since the brunt of your anger seems to come from the unused holes in the foam packing, would you be just as pissed if you buy a new Sebenza 21 and have that empty spot where the loctite would go?
 
I bought my Ti knowing it was a cutting edge "concept" knife made by the best in the business… My EDC are Um's and Sebs, but the Ti is a different animal from which I take much joy, and especially showing fellow enthusiasts who do not have access to put hands on one…Best blade to handle length ratio of any knife I have.. I guess it's the De Loren, or Tesla of knives…. That having been said, I do not like the clip.. but it does interchange directly with a Seb clip , which you can do,,,, Sell me yours cheap! Bart
 
I have to ask though. Since the brunt of your anger seems to come from the unused holes in the foam packing, would you be just as pissed if you buy a new Sebenza 21 and have that empty spot where the loctite would go?

I sure do love my new custom.....
 
I don't think I've ever had ANY knife I've bought come with tools to take it apart. I think this is much ado about nothing...
 
I think this is much ado about nothing...

While I wouldn't have been upset by this myself, I support anyone who buys a high-end item and expects the t's crossed and the i's dotted. Big money, big expectations. We can find excellent working knives for a lot less. There is a reason people spend the extra money.
 
My CRK knife came in a little white box with a piece of paper and nothing else. I don't feel I was shortchanged in the least. I also generally do not take knives apart. Spritz em with a little CLP and they are good to go.
 
You've got me intrigued. Did your custom come with tools and lube in a form fit box? I am guessing it must have to pass muster.

No, it didn't. It wasn't supposed to. There were no surprises, or excuses. That is the point. You are comparing apples and oranges, what's your point?

Every other brand of knife I own did not come with the three items that most CRK's come with.

I never expect them to.

I do expect it with the newest CRK offerings, especially if they send a form fitted box with cutouts for said items. If the TiLock does not come with these items, and the folder is not supposed to be user serviceable, I expect to be informed about it, either by a disclaimer included in the box, or, better yet, a disclaimer in the description page of the makers website. CRK tells you up front that the TL is not intended to be a hard use folder. They neglect to say that it is not intended to be user serviceable and does not come with the normal "fixens".


This thread reminds me of the ZT threads concerning the rusty Hinderer designs when they first came out. People made excuses. Very few had enough confidence in the company to call a spade a spade and admit that mistakes can be made. They were too wrapped up in defending their favorite brand. (Speaking of Prima Donnas....)

I'm not bashing CRK, I'm letting people know what the scoop is on the TiLock before some of them get disappointed.

A: CRK does not want the user to disassemble this knife. They want you to send it in to them for service and cleaning.
B: CRK does not include the items that come with all new Sebenzas/Umnumzaans.
C: CRK sends the same box and insert that Sebenzas/Umnumzaans come in, except that the insert holes are empty
D: CRK offers no explanation concerning any of this.

Had I known about any of this I probably still would have ordered the knife. It is totally unique, which is why I wanted it in the first place. But after being surprised and bewildered after the sale, I had to take the time to write the dealer. He had to take the time to explain that the knife does not come with those items. Then he had to take time out of his day to contact CRK to tell them to contact me and explain the rest of the story, it was pretty obvious that the dealer was frustrated with this ongoing problem. By this time I'm getting a bad taste in my mouth.

So now I'm looking at this $475 dollar knife and not really liking the whole transaction so much. The thrill is gone.

My new custom thrills me, I'm going to stop now and go admire its incredibly smooth action. I'm going to marvel at the superb F&F. I'm going to revel in the unique pattern and design. I'm going to enjoy the rare button lock, which works perfectly. I will notice how much nicer this folder is than the TiLock, and be glad that I was involved in a fail.:)
 
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Ah, so you paid $475 for a box with loctite, grease, and an allen wrench in it....and all that came was a box and a lousy perfectly built knife.

Shucks.


(And "most" new CRKs do not come with 3 "items". None of the Sebenza 21s come with loctite, so all of them come with an empty spot for it in the box. Darn.)
 
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