I can't describe how disappointed I am

This one appeared to be fully hardened all along its relatively thin cross-section, was perfectly straight and sharp as hell. A file just skated along the entire length.

I am not dissing anyones positive suggestions, but I would be truly amazed if the scabbard could be straightened in any way, and can't imagine the work that would be involved in making a form thin and long enough to insert to re-form against. This was very involved handwork.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460019&highlight=napoleon

Norm
 
Not really true again I am afraid. Japanese swords are hardened and tempered in one operation. The blades are coated with multiple, thin layers of clay slip. This is then dried slowly and the edge is carefully carved away, and thinned just above this line. The blade is then heated to a very specific colour, often said to be like the setting sun, and quenched by lowering edge first into whale oil, which is also at a certain temperature. The edge hardens to become very hard, if somewhat brittle edge but the spine tempers by slow quenching to be soft, with the part in-between being hard.


Japanese swords are not tempered, at least not traditional ones. True they are coated with a yakiba tsuchi (clay mixture) along the back (in the hiraji, shinogi, shinogi-ji, and mune) and after they are heated to near critical (around 800 C) temperture they are quinched (yakiire) and a tank of water (around 30 C) ha first causing the sori to appear. Japanese smiths didn't use oil on a common basis, at least not until late meiji - early taisho due to the larger demand of swords because oil quenches have a less failure rate (oil quenches have less bold hamon, part of the reason that a lot of smiths prior didn't use it). The ha becomes very hard leaving the back soft, in order to help absorb shock as well as to prevent the whole blade from being brittle. There is no tempering in the process, trying to temper any part of it would interrupt what they are trying to achieve, an unhardened back.


Maybe we should just agree to disagree. :)
 
I think so, you know far too much Japanese! :) Do you have any Japanese swords? I have 2 from 1395 - 1425, one from 1860, a WW11 katana, and a Japanese Naval dirk.

The edge is hardened, and the rest of the steel (in varying degrees is tempered) to a soft spine, but yes, it is done in one operation, and AFAIK, it is the only civilisation to do it. The process isn't the normal, heating and quenching which hardens the blade, and then heating to a certain temperature, and quenching to 'temper'.
 
I think so, you know far too much Japanese! :) Do you have any Japanese swords? I have 2 from 1395 - 1425, one from 1860, a WW11 katana, and a Japanese Naval dirk.

The edge is hardened, and the rest of the steel (in varying degrees is tempered) to a soft spine, but yes, it is done in one operation, and AFAIK, it is the only civilisation to do it. The process isn't the normal, heating and quenching which hardens the blade, and then heating to a certain temperature, and quenching to 'temper'.


I don't own any antique ones at the moment, held some and examined plenty in person..but have yet to be abe to afford one (darn HIKV....:D ) Currently I only own reproductions. :( ...but that may change soon. Sounds like you have a decent collection, do you have any pictures to share?

I think that the Chinese also had a method very similar to the Japanese with a little different clay like substance, but I have nothing to back that up...sadly I don't know a lot about Chinese arms.

Edit: Sorry Kazeryu for the off topic..
 
Probably should have moved this earlier...talk about an HI product but in an aftermarket perspective and now going lots of other places.

Hope the sword turns out repairable...
 
Thanks Nasty. All I can do now is try and get Ross all his $ back. I have filed everything and it is in process. If it drags out I'll reimburse him personally and wait for the PO to come around. Actually, it's the idiots at Canada mail as far as I'm concerned who are to blame.

In retrospect I should have used one of those stiff mailing tubes I guess, such as gun cleaning rods are shipped in by Midway and others. I'm guessing it was leaned up against a wall and something massive fell across it, and so the drones just picked it up and shipped it as is, knowing they had ruined it.

I don't normally become super attached to these, and of course would not have sold it were I not willing to part with it, but the loss of so much beautiful handwork is really depressing. :confused:

Norm
 
Ah.... life happens, Norm.

You are an honorable man. Betcha it never occurred to anyone that you would stop before this was resolved. I almost feel sorry for those in the way of reimbursement.

BTW, asking for the perp's head on a pike is a little beyond the pale.



justsayin':)
 
Never even considered that Norm would not get this resolved...not his style. One of the Good Guys for sure.
 
Well of course you did Norm. Nobody had doubts.

Still a shame that such artful work has been relegated to a refund of mere $$$ though IMO. But still, good news overall!
 
Thanks guys for your positive comments (nothing like a 90 day wait between replies!)

Ross, I need you to check your email or PM me ASAP. I tried PM'ing you this morning, but your profile doesn't accept them.

FYI, for the rest of you, the PO has done everything possible to delay or hinder this process. I have submitted two full batches of forms, waited 70 days for the PO to even acknowledge that they had heard nothing from Canada, then waited 4 more weeks while they mysteriously had problems getting me the first claim form. Seems it just couldn't get delivered to me, despite my calling daily, and their telling me again and again that it had been sent, with each previous day being the iron clad day it absolutely went out. You see, the 4th of July holiday delayed it 2 weeks...

Then the claim form is designed to NOT fit into the envelope provided, that you must use. I had to trim 3/8" off the top and the sides of the form to get it in. I included color pictures Ross provided showing all the damage, and all my receipts.

Now 4 1/2 months after the package was mailed and ruined, I got a response from St. Louis. Seems the pics, claim by Kazeryu and by me are not good enough. It could all be an elaborate scam, so they want to see the sword. Of course, now they have set a time limit on this new request, 30 days, and now that they have done so it begs the question as to why they couldn't communicate the need for physical proof of damage earlier? Ross would have had months to get me the item and the waiver.

I'm convinced it is because they are counting on the recipient losing the item or losing interest, and allowing just 30 days for an item to be packaged and sent Internationally and paperwork to be assembled is cutting it close. Anything to delay the process...

Ross has to pay to send it back to me, with a waiver stating I can receive the insurance $, notarized, with copies of his receipts for the notary and the shipping.

What's more, they just sent me the letter Friday the 10th, but it is DATED the 7th, and they started the clock ticking when they sent it: 30 days. If I don't get the waiver and a new damage claim from the PO (issued after they see the damage) to the St. Louis office by 9/7 then they deny everything.

BTW, initially the Canadian PO tried to weasel out of the whole thing by saying that because the sword was a "prohibited weapon" it should not have been sent in the first place and they weren't responsible. When I asked them why they would deliver a "prohibited weapon" they shut up.

Turns out the USPS considers it a curio or replica, and could really not care less what it is, they just want to see it in person.

Ross, I wrote to you Sunday 8/12, but haven't received a response. Please check your email and get back to me ASAP.

I know it's more work on your end, but I don't want the SOB's to get away with it. The file on this is 3/4" thick, and this should be the last stumbling block to get over. We have just 3 weeks to work with now!

Thanks,

Norm
 
Dang....:(


What a pain.....:mad:




For knives that "bendable" like that...I've started mailing them taped down to a small board - to ensure no possibility of bends. I've made plenty of shipping mistakes...and hopefully have learned from most of them. Even you, Norm, have seen one of my shipping blunders. :o :eek:
 
Dang....:(


What a pain.....:mad:




For knives that "bendable" like that...I've started mailing them taped down to a small board - to ensure no possibility of bends. I've made plenty of shipping mistakes...and hopefully have learned from most of them. Even you, Norm, have seen one of my shipping blunders. :o :eek:

Great idea Dan. I just didn't think of that. In the metal scabbard the sword was so light and strong that I just didn't see it bending. Seriously, I would defy most folks to be able to bend it over their knee if they tried. My biggest concern was the light brass guard on the handle, which could conceivably be bent to the side, so I wrapped it well.

I took this light super stiff package and wrapped it in 4 inches of bubble wrap, and then used one of the PO's own boxes to ship it. Something massive fell on it for sure.

I remember the package that you sent me Dan, but it was wrapped well also. It had a heavy knife in the top and a heavy one on the bottom, and the middle of the triangle box was where it broke. Not a scratch on either one, but steel and ironwood is a tough combo for sure. :D

Norm
 
Daniel

when I sent my Japanese swords to the polisher, I made a nailed frame out of 2" x 1" timber, and glued and stapled 3 ply corugated carboard to one side, added the sword wrapped in bubble wrap and then glued and stapled 3 ply corugated carboard to the top. It works well and isn't expensive.
 
Bruce Ryan, the guy who taught me how to grind, has a story about his father trying to collect money from a, USPS insured, lost shipment of 40 knives.
P.O. Ryan, Bruce's father, sent the knives to Paul Bos to get their HT. After a couple of months, P.O. called Paul to see what was going on. Well after a wild goose chase, hours spent on the phone, and 18 months later P.O. finally got a check from the Post Office.

Always insure and always have delivery conformation with signature recipt. If it is custom and worth the kind of money you pay for it, it is probably worth it to somebody in the chain of delivery to steal it. If it does get lost or destroyed perhaps one day you may be able to get your money back if you can follow the rabbit down the paper trail.
 
Thanks Dave. Good advice. Current update on the saga: the St. Louis claims office demanded to have the local PO see the sword in person.

Ross had to spend over $60 on top of what he has coming, in order to express it to me within the 30 days they gave us to submit the last part of the claim. The local PO told me that he would be able to be reimbursed for this. There was no choice, as regular air mail takes 3 weeks, and that was cutting it too close.

Under the original July 5 claim, they stated they only needed to see the insurance info and the valuation of the item, along with a sales receipt, appraisal, etc., etc. Ross would have had almost 2 full months to leisurely get me the sword had they asked for it then, and it would have cost him about $10 using par avion air mail from Canada.

So I took it in, and the PO said that I had to submit the entire claim all over again, and didn't understand the process. I told them the woman in St. Louis had all the paperwork already, but I needed an additional claim form from them. I needed to send that to the Int'l claims office, along with a payment waiver from Ross, the original letter from them, and a cover letter from me, as well as a scanned copy of Ross' $60 mailing expenditure.

Then the PO told me they never _heard_ of a return item mailing being reimbursed, even though it was at their demand to prove damages. This directly contradicted what they had told me 3 weeks ago.

So a guy who pays for an item and has it destroyed, now has to pay a pile of more $ to return it to the orig. sender, and that isn't subject to reimbursement? I got them to finally include that with the claim.

I was at the PO 90 minutes, and they finally got tired of my making a scene and escorted me to a waiting area where a supervisor took copies of all my documents. She said she would mail it all to St. Louis for final disposition.

I have never seen an organization make a complicated reimbursement policy so convoluted, so difficult, and contradict their own policies as it suits them. Since they set an arbitrary deadline of 30 days from their last correspondence, or they would rule against the claim, I had them overnight and register all the documents to the specific claims supervisor, and I bit my tongue and wrote a nice ingratiating letter to this PO cog.

One final note: The scabbard on the sword is ruined; I don't see how it could be salvaged. But the sword itself was only bent once in the middle. I am sure that I could straighten it out nicely, at least enough to make the damage invisible, and I planned to do this and send it back to Ross. Perhaps a leather or kydex sheath could be made for it.

BUT, the PO's policy is that you forfeit all items. So even though an item may be worth $1000, and has say $500 worth of damage, if you only insure it for $100, in order to get your $100 you have to hand over the item which would be currently worth $500. If you get all that...:D

So they took the sword and scabbard. Fine with me, but I expect the $ to be paid.

What a bunch. Despite what Dave says, I almost think the insurance is a scam. It's like buying insurance while playing Blackjack, which is a scam for the house. I'll bet the PO only pays 5-10% of all their insurance claims, because of all the hoops they make you jump through.

It's been 5 and 1/2 months since the sword was originally mailed to Canada. Hopefully this journey through bureaucratic incompetence will end soon...!

Norm
 
Wow what nonsense. It makes me rethink if I'll ever bother to insure my packages again. You think they make enough money off the insured shipments to pay out once in a while. Don't loose it and go "postal" Norm. :-)
 
So sorry to see this happen. I hope you get some sort of satisfaction from these bozos. I once had my Hatfield squirrel rifle smashed by UPS, who essentially told me to pound sand. The lock was destroyed, luckily nothing else, so it could be fixed somewhat easily.
 
Wow what nonsense. It makes me rethink if I'll ever bother to insure my packages again. You think they make enough money off the insured shipments to pay out once in a while. Don't loose it and go "postal" Norm. :-)


LOL! Well, that would be the place to do it no doubt! The woman who first helped me this last time was muttering to herself under her breath about how senseless the whole process was, so she certainly empathized.

I'm trying to be more optimistic every day (hard for me), so rather than resigning myself automatically to being shafted, will hope the flood of submitted evidence will be so overwhelming they'll pay up.

Shame they wanted the sword though. Wonder what they'll do with it? Destroy it I guess. (Or run a shift supervisor through! :D)


Norm
 
Hi folks. I haven't been around BF much these days, but I've been in touch with Norm about this fiasco the whole time.

I always suspected that getting insurance money out of the postal system would be hard, but I never imagined the lengths they would go to in order to frustrate us. Is writing a signed letter empowering the package sender as your agent on a photocopy of your passport really necessary?

I think Norm is a hero for putting up with all this - Thanks so much!
 
Has anyone ever tried to mail, a hand written letter, to their congressman?

I am curious as to if they would give a poop. The more of this stuff I read the more ticked off I get.
 
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