I dont like little survival kits.

S

shipwreck

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I use to view the mini kit as an icon. As one of those things that had it's place in camping and as survival readiness. This recent fall season, spending alot of time in the woods, my views are changing. I guess you could say I'm growing iconoclastic. Bought a couple of Doug Ritter kits to play with, and when I opened one I thought; there isn't really anything that I want in this thing! I've been spending a few days looking over the threads on other kits: tape, thread, fish hooks, saftey pins, a bit of aluminum foil. What am i going to do with any of that?

What do I want?(not including my ever present becker necker and swiss army trekker) I asked myself as honestly as possible. What do I really want to have out in the woods?

I want an emergency tube tent. I want a space blanket. These two items take up very little room but have tremedous worth. I know how to build a shelter out of natural materials, but I also know how long it takes.


I want a fire steel and a bic lighter.

I want metal cup.(a metal cup to boil water is a fantastic asset to have with you, head and shoulders above aluminum foil)

A little compass is nice to have too I actually use a compass alot, to keep me oriented.

AND I want some kind of energy bars;Yeah, as you can see in survivor man and man versus wild, it is damn hard to get food in the woods without a gun. We all know we dont need food to survive, but guess what? You get hungry out in the woods, its nice to eat something.

These items can all fit into a small belt pouch. They are "big" items but almost on the same level of ease of carry as a tin or a dough ritter clear pack. Anytime you are prompted to carry your mini kit, why not just carry a slightly bigger "kit" instead that contains items that are much more practical? Work on making that kit as small and easy to carry as you can. Not just carrying stuff that experts say you should have. If you are turned around this hunting season lost in the woods, its snowing, cold and dark, do really want to pull out that dough ritter thing? No way. You'll want what I just described. and it could be right there on your belt.

The reason for this thread is to challange notions of survival gear. Why have monofiliment, fish hooks and snare line instead of energy bars? If you are going to carry something, shouldnt it be as practical as it possibly can be? Finally ask yourself, what do you really want to have on that cold, rainy dark night alone in the woods?
 
I think this is actually a really good discussion piece. Personally in my kit I have:

iodine - good for a lot of stuff
firesteel and mag block
bic lighter
sewing needle
a small spool of medium fishing line
some emergency tinder (a small back of pre-shaved mag and cotton balls)
a small set of fish hooks
a few fishing weights
a few bandaids of various sizes
some antibiotic ointment for burns and cuts
some antihistamines (important for me. I have always had resporatory problems and alergies)
some allergy pills
some pain pills
some migrane pills
some glucose tablets for diabetics
some water purification tablets
an emergency pancho
a metal cup
two flares
a whistle
a tiny pocket knife with scalpel size blades that are razor sharp
some clean whipes
a small rolled up batch of toilet paper
a few energy bars
I can't even remember what else.

It seems like a ton of stuff but it actually all fits in a coffee can. This kit is mainly planning ahead for either injury or slightly longer survival with the chance of having to travel and therefor risking again injury. It's all stuff that I have wished at one time or another that I would have had with me. The fishing line and tackle I've hear people say is not really that useful. I've used the same stuff that is in my kit and a large bamboo pole (not uncommon to grow wild here) to catch fish while camping. Sure it would hve been easier to just add some more food that would have taken up a little more space, but the amount of space it would have taken up would be more than it was worth. Like you said, we don't need that much food, but we still get hungry and having some there would be nice. All the food I ever pack seems to run out pretty quick and I'm sure it would run out even faster if I was in a situation where I would be stranded or injurred or something like that. So that being the case, I still leave out one energy bar to have enough room to pack things that can sustain me longer by being an easy means to gather food. I personally like fish so I'd rather spend some time fishing than eat an energy bar. Plus it's fun. It would be a serious moral booster to just go fishing for a little while. Kinda take my mind off stuff for a minute. It's one of those activities that can keep you occupied and make you think you're making progess if for no other reason than to make you feel a little better. That's how I came up with my kit, all stuff I had wished at some time or another i had with me.
 
Same here. I first came up with a reasonably minimalist kit, although it wasn't nearly as small as some folks carry. Then I looked at my experience level and what I would have liked to have on hand on previous occasions when it looked like I was going to have to spend an unplanned night or two out of doors. I wound up with a kit that fits comfortably in a medium size fanny pack, is quick and easy to use, will keep me in pretty good shape for a couple of days, and gives me a good set of tools and materials to draw on in case I need to stay out a bit longer. I admire the folks who are skilled enough to carry a minimalist kit, but I'm much more confident with something just a bit bigger.
 
Well said, popedandy, work toward the skills, but have the special items of gear, that make things as easy and sure as possible. Make sure its in a kit small enough to take with you anytime you are heading out.
 
I agree, why pack what you need in the smallest space??? I have a cheap fanny pack that I picked up at a yard sale for 2 bucks and have the following in it.
Puuko
SAK Trekker
CS twist lock knife
Bic lighter
Firesteel
Torch lighter
20 feet of hemp rope
30 feet of 550 cord
2 compasses (one with wistle)
High gear wistle with compass and LED light, magnifying glass and mirror
Char cloth
small roll of birch bark
LED flashlight with spare battery (very small)
Small sharpening steel
Small sewing kit (as seen before)
matches in case
small jar of vasiline
small tube of purell
small candle
dental floss
iodine tabs
carmax

As you can see, I believe in having multiple tools for the 3 most important things, FIRE, STEEL, and FIRE. I carry this in my truck with me everyday, I sometimes switch the knife depending on my mood. Gene
 
I'm with you on this one. I keep a belt pouch in my pack that has all my go-to items in it, but they are real items. Its the stuff I use all the time.

My altoids tin PSK in my Becker sheath is very simple and very redundant. It is the stuff I wouldn't want to be caught without. That Becker is my PSK along with my canteen and cup. In practical terms it is asking alot of an altoids tin sized kit to really cover your basic needs. Mac
 
What you are suggesting that you want, is a personal survival kit (PSK), which is your main gear in an emergency. A mini kit, is a bit of last resort gear, that is kept separate from your PSK. So that if your PSK is lost or whatever, you still have a small amount of gear that you can rely on.
 
Gun, why dont you slip a tube tent into that pack and a space blanket, If its dark and cold and raining or snowing, these items are a godsend to have with you. A natural shelter is easy to construct but it takes time. Having premade shelter is a great thing to have with you.
 
Yes, different levels of preparedness and crossovers between them. WSK, PSK, BOB... we all have different ideas of what is needed to survive, and different ideas of what could happen and where to put us in those situations. That makes it nearly impossible to agree on a single kit size and contents.

I personally have found that with age and experience, my comfort level in outdoor environments has risen with my skill level, and I have weeded down my kits substantially. Most of what I initially thought was needed has never been used. And I found that the more complete (therefore bulky and heavy) a kit became, the less likely I was to have it with me.

IMHO, less is more - smaller is better.

Codger
 
longbow50 said:
What you are suggesting that you want, is a personal survival kit (PSK), which is your main gear in an emergency. A mini kit, is a bit of last resort gear, that is kept separate from your PSK. So that if your PSK is lost or whatever, you still have a small amount of gear that you can rely on.
Click to expand...


Fair enough, but Im not sure everybody relates to survival kits with these distinctions.

People put a doug ritter kit or a penrith tin into their pocket and think " ok Im set". But they are lacking the true basics. Even on a couple of posts on this thread, you dont see anybody mentioning a tube tent. Why is that? You can buy one at the local outdoor shop for a couple of bucks, takes up the same space as a space blanket. But why dont people include it? I think for a two reasons, first one is: not everybody has been lost in the woods overnight. Being in that situation focuses you on what is really important . Getting a roof over your head in a hurry, wrapping yourself up against the cold.

The second reason is that alot of people have the image of the mini kit in mind as they build even thier PSKs, they are thinking in terms of raw materials that require skills to execute, rather than having items that circumvent the need for skills and help you to achieve your needs in the fastest way possible, tube tent, space blanket, bic, cup, energy bars, These are shortcuts that should be squeezed into the smallest pouch you can get your hands on.

Even with exellent skills, you should carry gear that makes survival as easy and efficient as possible for you. When you appraise the mini kit, you may come to wonder what value it has at all.
 
shipwreck,

I am somewhat in agreement with you. I think that many kits are full of substandard, unreliable, unrealistic gear, leaving people feeling good about survival, while actually leaving them poorly underequipped for a real situation. However, that is not cause to damn all little survival kits, only cause to damn poorly done little survival kits.

Of the items you list, I have pretty similar stuff in my kit. You mention:

• Becker Necker – I have a Busse neck knife in my kit
• Tube Tent and Space Blanket – I have a bivouac sack in my kit
• Fire Steel and Lighter – I have a fire steel and a butane torch in my kit (among other firestarters and tinders)
• A Metal Cup – I have my kit housed in an aluminum box in which I can boil water and cook food
• Compass – I have a good compass in my kit
• Energy Bars – In my opinion, a few energy bars isn't worth carrying in my survival kit, when factoring in its volume and weight, versus its value. Three energy bars makes what?... perhaps three or four hours worth of food when I am sedate, at home? Further, I disagree with you that it is damn hard to get food in the woods without a gun. Grubs, termites, and ants, among other insects, are plentiful and easy to find. Berries are plentiful and easy to find in summer, and mushrooms are plentiful and easy to find in autumn and winter. There are tons of edible plants, everywhere. (Of course, learn how to ID the safe foods and the poisonous foods, before eating such stuff.) And it's not that hard to get within range to kill small mammals and birds by hand, or by throwing a stone, or with a stick, or a sling. (Note, however, that I do take a lot of snacks with me, whenever I head outdoors.)

I also have a number of other goodies in my kit, such as a warm hat. And it's still small enough to fit in my pocket... though I do wear pants with large pockets.

(By the way, you can see my kit, here: http://www.mikespinak.com/articles/Essays/e995mypsk.html )

I do see tape as being very useful. It can be used as band-aids or even in place of stitches; it can be used to repair clothes, glasses, shoes, tents, etc.; it can be used to bind things together for shelter; it's limited only by your imagination. I also see string (at least, good cord) as useful, for everything from binding shelter, to tying important items to you so they don't get lost, to repairing clothes and pack and tent, to making a hammock or fishing net.

I also give Doug Ritter's kit a little more credit than you do. The whistle, mirror, Spark Lite fire starter and Tinder Quik tinder in that kit are excellent, and Doug did a great job of designing the mirror and whistle, himself, as well as designing the kit, and bringing it to market at a fair price. Basically, I see Doug's kit as inadequate for me, but not useless... and it makes a great start to building your own kit.

(You can read my review of Ritter's kit, here: http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000693#000002 )

Anyway, I agree with you about kits full of aluminum foil, 10 feet of string, a condom, a scalpel, a two inch long piece of hacksaw blade, etc. Those items definitely can be good in a survival situation... but I'll make sure I'm better covered than that.
 
Well said Mike. I think of the Doug Ritter mini kit as an emergency starter kit, not my going camping/hunting kit. I've changed and added things to it as the need called for, but no way intend it to be my main kit. I keep it in my pocket when going to the store, into the city, simple errands, for emergencies to have "something" with my folder just in case I am separated from my regular kits.

Like Mike said it has some nice stuff in it, like fire starter and tinder, and it does have a compass. My DR mini kit is a place to start, not a place to end and I have kits all over the place, different sizes and for different needs. I've read everything you have on you (kits, tools, food, etc) in a survival/emergency situation is a bonus to your knowledge and skills...
 
Evolute..Yeah , there you go, the points we disagree on are minor to where we are in agreement. As long as you keep that kit with you, the same way you do an altoids size kit, you are in good shape.

About hunting, i've snared and killed with a stick, caught fish on saftey pins all of that. Im not going to be out long enough to die from hunger. But while Im hunkered down in my tube tent or bivuoac sack, rolled up in a mylar space blanket, watching the fire and sipping from my metal cup, might be nice to munch an energy bar, have one for breakfast when dawn comes the next day.

As far as Doug's Kit goes, I object to it mostly on a conceptual basis, for reasons Ive already explained. And unlike alot of people Im not impressed with the mirror and whistle all that much. My opinion is he spends too much time and energy on the whistle and mirrror , while missing out on more important concepts. I feel the whole Dough Ritter website and approach is too detail oriented and quite frankly myopic at times.
 
The point of the mini kit is that it is in your front pocket 365 days a year. So when you need it suddenly (not when you are planning) you have some basic items. Sure a bigger kit for when you are in the bush but a small one for every day carry is very smart idea.

Yes, I carry one 365 days a year. I havent opened it in 2 years but its there if I need it.

It is part and parcel of a layered approach that gets progressively more complete the more risk I am taking.

Skam
 
shipwreck said:
And unlike alot of people Im not impressed with the mirror and whistle all that much. My opinion is he spends too much time and energy on the whistle and mirrror , while missing out on more important concepts.
Click to expand...

I am not a huge Ritter fan for many reasons but Doug got the mini kit down.
You are entirely incorrect. The mirror and the whistle IS THE POINT! The point is to get rescued and to have some signalling gear thats quality and in a kit small enough to be on your persons when you need it.

Sure fire shelter water etc.... But signalling is the part most ignored in fantasy survival scenarios in peoples heads. How many would be alive today or less injured if they had a whistle and mirror.

MY 3 cents as usual I guess.

Skam
 
skam, good on you , I think you are more an execption than a rule. It sounds like you also pack better gear when you head out, so there isnt much contention between our points. I only really object to the mini kit because it fosters a skills over gear approach to packing a kit. And I say, develop the skills whenever you can, but carry a kit that could be thought of as a "survival kit for dummies". I sometimes think of preparing for survival situation the same as fighting someone who wants to mug you. Do you want to meet that guy with a yawara stick or a pump shotgun?
 
this is a great thread i've never bought a mini kit but made a few after being here for a while . i have a few questions as well if anyone here would or can answer them .i hope this isn't of base from this thread. i carry a A.L.I.C.E. medium pack every where i go it's over stocked but there are items that would be left behind should i need to get moving.
1 q: i saved a rain fly from a old tent its small but it has bungies on it and is a great small shelter IMO. whats your take?

2 q:i carry a few diffrent fire starters my main squeeze is the ultamite fire starter fire steel is it bad to count on this method?

3 q: what would you guys say is a easy weight to carry for a long time my pack when over loaded weighs 22.5 lbs. it's easy for me to carry i train with it all the time can do 5 pull ups with it on and wear it for about 2 hours before i start to few the drain from it.

4 q:how long should it take to cover a mile of easy walking with your pack on it takes me 18 mins. to cover a mile . with 30lbs is that a okay travel speed or should i be able to cover more ground than that?

contents of my pack are
2 ultamite fire steels and 10 wet dry tinders
1 spyderco jerry hossum forester
2 spyderco temperance one se and one pe
1 mora 2k
1 mora camp hattchet
1 rat 5
1 sak champ
1 sak mutitool
12 diffrent bandaids
1 ready when you are ice pack
4 silk hankeys
1 crank charge led flash light
4 led glow sticks red green and blue
1 4 led head light
1 pencil sharpener
about 100 fire strawls
6 diffrent zipp loc bags from xxl to the sandwhich bag
1 stainlessteel flask
1 2 quart camel pack
200ft of 550 cord
1 rain fly
1 wind breaker jacket
1 spyderco sharpmaker
5 pairs of gloves 3 leather 2 fleece
100ft of 50lbs test fishing line
8 hooks
3ft of alum foil
1 whistel mirror compass combo
millitary survival guide not needed but great for passing time
there are other small things but thats the main parts. everything in my pack is sealed in water tight bags or hard plastic containers that are water tight. my pack floats and i know how to swim with it on. but for fun and constuctive critisim. i welcome any input im new to this and i know there is fat to trim away. ive slimmed my pack down from 38lbs to 22.5lbs. because of the info from you guys but would like to know what would you dump out and leave behind.??? or leave it alone as is or what to add. thanks a bunch
 
I think that what we are all getting at is that some people "need" different things. My dad carries wood strike anywere matches and a leatherman PST. He's spent more un-planned nights outside than I have planned nights, mostly keeping a fire going. I know that in a "spend the night" sort of situation I have very little need for shelter, I won't be sleeping because if I stop moving at 15 degrees C, I'll be frozen unless I have a large amount of calories to burn, so I carry caffeine, I know that I might need something to keep my eyes open until sun-up. I need fire, I don't need shelter. I also know that I'm going to need water, so I carry a 1L pot. food can be found, water can be found, but if I'm not sure that I'll be found within two days, I'm going to make sure I'm not sick before then. as far as compasses, GPS's and the like, as soon as I'm lost, I'm probably going to set up camp. if I'm in a group, the first thing after that is smash the compass. If I'm in charge, or not the compass means that someone will try to leave, either on their own, or with others, possibly with the gear that would ensure the survival of the rest, because it is the illusion of doing something, and it will likely end badly. it's kind of like on the movie "Alive" when the leaders of the group hear on the radio that the search is off. my survival kits all base around staying put until help arrives, and I can build a house on day two if it makes me feel better. I've got time. My packs are bigger than what most would consider normal, but it comes in handy when unplanned trips are sprung or when I'm packing for others in a low-risk scenario. and sometimes just having a visible supply of gear makes everyone relax helping the situation. But I'm odd, I know that, and I know that I carry too much, just my 2 pennys
 
Well Gadgetgeek, I have to object to this, shelter is what will save you from exposure. You need to go back to school on this. Shelter is even more primary than fire. You need to shelter from wind, rain, snow and in certain locals, sun. If you dont you'll die.
 
some nice stuff there eastr, and your practicing carrying it, smart move. But I'm not seeing mankinds fix all, hold it together till later miracle! "Duck Tape!" I keep some in mine rolled tight and small in a corner somewhere.
 
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