I don't think I'll buy any more Case knives.

knarfeng said:
I don't know what you do for a living, but I work in a factory and I often have to perform cost estimates. When you add in all the overhead costs of keeping a factory running, the cost of labor is roughly $130 an hour. This is called the "burdened rate". (I've worked in several factories. The burdened rate doesn't vary all that much. Taxes, light bills, secretaries, building maintenance. It all has to be paid for in each activity an employee performs.)

So, for $30, if it takes a skilled worker more than 14 minutes to remove the broken bone, find a matching piece and attach it, then Case is losing money. Personally, I'd guess they are losing money at that rate.

Fixing a knife is not the same as running one through the semi-automated production line. It's concentrated hands-on labor, which means it's bloody expensive.
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Well said, Frank. I think it is entirely generous of CASE to even do something like that. You know that if it isn't 110% on its return, the next action will be to post there with how badly CASE screwed it up, lost it, or didn't match the aged portion of the knife, or polished out the pocket wear, etc.

99% of people are not business folks, and I run into the same screams of disbelief when I quote a price for repairs, maintenance or remodel. No one thinks about someone in receiving taking in the knife, logging it in the system, inspecting for repairs, then checking to see if that is something CASE is able to do with some surety. Then they have someone contact the sender, and tell them the scope of repairs and the price, and wait to hear from them. The knife is tagged and stored for future reference.

The owner of the knife agrees to the repairs, so the knife is pulled and goes into the line of knives to be repaired by a Cutler, not a line machine operator. The knife is carefully repaired, cleaned up, sharpened, and put in a box for packing to send to the owner.

Before it is sent out, payment is verified, and unless someone sent cash, a payment was made by credit card that will automatically take about 2 1/2% of the charge. The knife is packed, a shipping label is generated, and tracking number is logged in, and it is taken down to shipping. And of course, if it is sent insured, that's a bit more.

CASE should be ashamed of themselves for giving that away. I have been in business for myself for about 30 years now, and I quit being a charity years ago. If ANYTHING goes wrong with this transaction (real or imagined)or even if the owner is just disappointed, they will spread it all over the internet. In a cost/risk assessment, if I were CASE I would have declined to do any kind of repair or service work on a knife that wasn't under warranty. Regardless of what you charge for your repairs, you still have all the same liability and warranty issues for the product you repair. $30 or $300 worth of work, the issues are the same.

The way my buddy that repairs tools handles this is a big sign that says, "Bench fee minimum $65 NO EXCEPTIONS. All parts extra". So if you take your old drill in to him that you paid $75 for 5 years ago and have used it pretty well (or not!) he just points to the sign and asks for "down payment" up front. Scares off the folks looking for free or near free work.

As far as CASE goes, I don't know how any manufacturing business can do a one off of anything for $30.

Robert
 
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Campbellclanman said:
Then everyone has wasted their time in trying to help you, the other single new knife was made in a batch of several hundred at the very least, so theres the ( massive ) difference -what cant you see in visualizing a staff member who will take possibly longer that 15 minutes to repair your knife, using materials etc and you only paying $15 for the Labour? call an electrician or plumber or get the kid down the road to mow your lawns and see how much the Labour charge is in comparison - your quote was nothing, I actually cannot believe you are quibbling over $30 - this is an everyday part of life - people have to juggle whether to fix a fridge, lawn mower, car house or would it be cheaper to get a new one - every day!
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+1

I don't know how many knives Case receive in the post, which their owners have damaged in some way that isn't covered by the warranty, but it must be a massive PITA when they do. Are they supposed to spend time contacting the person to give them a quote for the work, which would add to their costs? If they carry out the work in good faith, and charge what most posters here seem to think is a fair price, and then the owner of the knife changes his mind and wants to haggle, they get slagged off on the internet, and maybe the work they've done doesn't get paid for. No wonder that most companies require an up-front deposit prior to any work being carried out, or even worse, refuse to do any repair work at all because it isn't economically viable. Welcome to the throw-away culture.
 
Steven65 said:
This is a joke right?? :confused:

You bought a $30 knife and used it for 15 years. That means it cost you $2 a year. Now you have broken a handle slab and you complain because 15 years later Case want to charge you $30 to repair it! (Including postage)

It's a fair bet that Case are loosing money doing this for you but there they are, 15 years later, standing by their product and repairing it.
And your cost for the next fifteen years……17c a month. Sounds like a great deal to me.
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this...and if the op thinks its an expensive repair bill,try repairing it yourself! there are a few reasons case annoys me as a company but this is not one of them!maybe you could have sent it out to china to get it repaired cheaper??
 
Just from my perspective it seems:

1. Case messed up when they sent you an itemized bill. Had they just told you a total cost for repair was 30 bucks and didn't tell you where the money was going then you'd probably had forked over the cash in a second. But since they didn't, now it's an issue.

2. For them to keep the knife in storage, send you the card, wait for you to make up your mind, process the payment, then do the repair and then ship, is the "actual" total cost ($30).

3. If the shipping is lower than what is billed, then that money is basically "a tip"

4. Pay the $30 and get the knife back fixed.

5. Or, don't pay, have them send you back the broken knife, and continue life with a broken knife and a bad attitude.

6. Perhaps you should not have sent the knife back in the first place. Less hassle and less aggravation for everyone. Just sayin'
 
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So Robert, I bet you wish you had never mentioned it. :D
Sorry, couldn't resist,me bad.

Regards

Robin
 
I echo a lot of the sentiments said here. Just remember an American factory worker repaired that knife by hand. Sometimes you have to move past the price and remember to put your money into something that matters. Keeping American industry alive is worth my $30. Having said that, if Case has already done the repairs I think it would be a disservice to them to not pay the $30. They have spent their time doing a service for you and will be out even more than what they already are. I'm not some corporation loving person either, just seems wrong to commission a service and not follow through once it's done. If they haven't done the repairs yet then do whatever.
 
Case warranty and out of warranty repair is simple....if it's an obvious factory defect, Case will repair or replace with a like knife, assuming you accept a similar knife. Any knife of sentimental value that is out of warranty, or any old, used, and obviously not defective...just old and used, will incur charges that the consumer will be made aware of prior to Case starting any repair work. If you authorize the repair, then you pay Case first, and they will repair the knife using the currently available parts to make the knife whole; not a restoration, just made whole. If you decline their offer to repair, they will return the knife to you at their expense, and you can now buy whatever it is you believe will be a good 15 year investment. Unless otherwise stated, I would say that Case's warranty is no different then 99% of the rest of the competition. There are exceptions, and there are one percenter companies who have a no questions asked lifetime warranty, but you will pay up front for this kind of warranty.
 
robertj298 said:
I really can't see it.If Case can make the same knife from scratch ship it to a dealer and he can sell it for $2 dollars more than it cost to replace one side of the sideplates and make a profit, it just doesn't add up.
Click to expand...

It always costs more to repair than to manufacture. Manufacturing, distributing and all associated marketing costs are spread over many thousands or millions of individual items. Repairs are based on working on one single sample.

That's how we got to be a throwaway society. Cheaper to make than fix.
 
IMO Case is as good as they come on warranty issues and repairs. Try sending one like that in to GEC.
They are giving you a good price, and the knife will come back looking like new.
Or just buy a new one. Natural materials can break. If you don't want to worry about that maybe you should try one with G10 or micarta this time.


Alnamvet68 said:
The best price I could find on a mini-Trapper in bone is $42.00, plus $5.85 2 day Priority mail. I agree, you cannot buy a brand new in the box mini-Trapper for $30.00.
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You can find them for less than that, but you're correct about not being able to find one for $30 shipped.
The Chestnut CV Mini Trapper is less than $40 shipped at an auction site. $36.99.
 
Maybe I'm just used to a different kind of customer service. I'll give you an example. I like to search for old coins and relics with a metal detector. One of my old detectors made by Whites developed a crease in the lcd meters screen. I called Whites and asked if I should send it in to be repaired. The lady in customer service told me no, that I could just peal the old screen off with a knife and she would get a new screen ,which normally costs $10 , off to me in the mail that day no charge. Now...when I need another detector, what brand do you think I'll buy?
 
Not quite the same sort of service you are getting from one to the other. Whites just sent you a plastic piece that probably cost 25 cents in the mail free of charge. That requires no labor other than someone taking the time to grab the part and ship it, which might have cost all of $1 to ship. I bet Case would love to send you just the scale and tell you to slap it on your self., but it's not that easy. Case has to completely disassemble the knife, provide a matching scale, reassemble the the knife, polish and finish the knife and I 'm sure they sharpen it as well before shipping it back out to you. I'm not sure what one of their factory or service techs make, but I would guess with wage and benefits it's at least $20 an hour, probably more. Throw in cost of utilities, equipment, supplies, insurance and liability and the cost goes higher still. $30 doesn't seem unreasonable at all when you factor all that entails fixing your knife. You bought a cheap knife 15 years ago and it served you well until it eventually broke, money well spent on a US made product. Even though their product worked well for you for many years you want to throw them to the dogs because you feel it cost too much to fix it, a $30 knife? This makes no sense to me at all. And it's a wonder to people why we have so many manufacturing jobs leaving this country, well it's due to this type of mentality.
 
Interesting thread. Like Frank and a few others, I have a manufacturing background. And a perspective of warranty and non-warranty repairs/replacements.

First, adjusted for inflation, a knife that cost $30 fifteen years ago would cost $42 or a bit more today. Second, while knives are usually sturdy and well made, none are meant to last forever. There is a very good reason why as soon as modern plastics like Dupont Delrin became available, most manufacturers quit using bone for knife handles. Not because cow bone is rare or expensive, but because bone wears and cracks. Third, quite often whe na knife (product) is no longer made and is out of warranty, it is at the manufacturer's descretion to repair or replace with a current production item similar, or not at all. Generous warranties are good advertising and public relations but they can also be a huge burden to a manufacturer, eating profits. Schrade did ok with theirs for years, one year loss warranty on Uncle Henry knives and lifetime workmanship warranty on all knives. Then after the deaths of the Baer brothers, the two largest accounts became the tail that wagged to dog, Sears and Walmart. Both demanded that Schrade accept returns for any, all or no reason. This snowballed until it became one of the multiple reasons that Imperial Schrade and Camillus both bankrupted.

In the late 80's-early 90's I returned my twenty year old hunting knife t oSchrade. The shield had fallen out of the handle. I asked them to replace the shield or, if that wasn't possible due to it's age, simply return my knife as-is, but please do not replace the knife. It was returned to me with a new shield heated in and in a new sheath. And at no charge other than the return shipping. They could do this at the time because such repair requests were neither expensive or excessive. Things changed greatly over the next fifteen years or so. People returned knives to the store because the blades tarnished, a "defect". And the retail giants required Schrade to take them back. So they lost the wholesale sale, the packaging, shipping and had to either trash them or, if possible, reprocess and repackage them in large batches to try to break even on them. Consider that a knife which sells for $30 retail might cost the retailer $15-$20. And might cost the maker $7.50 to $10 to produce in large bulk, including overhead, packaging, advertising etc. Reprocessing might cost the maker nearly as much. And certainly much more per unit to do one-off rebuilds of unwarranteed, damaged older knives.

Now, all that said, Schrade is now gone and their knife warranties with them. I carry a Schrade premium stockman every day and use it in my work. Occasionally someone breaks one or I misplace one. But they are still available new in the box on the secondary market for less than I would pay a cutler to reblade one. And less than I would pay retail for another brand of similar style and quality. In fact, I now own a stock of more than two dozen of this single pattern and make, enough to last me the rest of my life if one gets lost, stolen or broken every six months. And if I am wrong, I can send a sack of broken ones for repair parts to a tinkerer/cutler here on the forums to build me a new one. Likely trading the spares for labor, costing me only the shipping.

So this is the experience and opinion of an old Codger. A new high price-point knife is an entirely different deal.
 
I good exercise would be, take a slippie apart and try to put new scales on it, it ISN'T easy.

Regards

Robin
 
I have concluded after reading all the comments that I did actually make a mistake. I should have just pitched the knife and put the $30 towards a new knife. If I would have known the cost would be that high I would have. I would never spend $20K to repair a car that cost me $25 K new or spend $125 to repair a fishing reel that cost $150 new.
 
....and so we have concluded this thread based on the above post. Thank you robertj298. I think I'll buy me a wharncliff bladed mini Copperhead from Case now; don't have that pattern in my collection.;)
 
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I'll ad just one last bit. I've followed this thread from the first post. It's been worth a few chuckles along the way. I can't help but wonder the age groups of the 2 sides to this story. I think the older group among us knew all along what the final outcome should be.
Bob
 
robertj298 said:
I have concluded after reading all the comments that I did actually make a mistake. I should have just pitched the knife and put the $30 towards a new knife. If I would have known the cost would be that high I would have. I would never spend $20K to repair a car that cost me $25 K new or spend $125 to repair a fishing reel that cost $150 new.
Click to expand...

I am NOT being sarcastic (seriously!) but I think you "got it". Most folks here are collectors that use their knives occasionally so they don't really tear them up. To me and for a few others here, they are tools. Tools have a life expectancy that depends on what the tool is and what the tool designed to do.

I use the same logic for all my tool replacement/repair when I decide a tool's fate that is explained above. If I had a cutting tool that cost me $2 a year to use (and still worked!) I wouldn't complain if it had broken pieces. In this case (no pun intended) I would have fixed it myself or relegated it to a knife that lives in the tool bags. $2 a year for any kind of tool isn't a noticeable cost and after 15 years I would have certainly felt like I came out well on that deal.

Robert
 
Interesting thread with lots of good insights that came along the way.
Honestly, I thought the knife had some sort of emotional value for you, but I was wrong.
Money is a delicate topic and if that's more than you're willing to pay, then just choose another path...but their price is far from unreasonable to me (and to anyone else, or so it seems), and bashing Case for this seems unfair (they surely have their weak points but not this one).
As a sidenote, and even taking away the money factor, sometimes I wish that the whole thing of repairing instead of replacing was more common (like it was some decades ago in Europe and the US, or like it still is in some parts of the world).

Fausto
:cool:
 
I can agree, we as well as other "modern" nations have lost our way when it comes to repairing our essential, and perhaps, not so essential tools. A trip to Cuba a few years ago confirmed this, when I saw the hundreds, if not thousands of 1954 through 1958 Chevy's and Fords still up and running, doing exactly what they were designed to do, with a simple bit of TLC. Of course, this exceptional care of all things old has everything to do with the ready availability of a replacement, which in the case of the Cubans, is not an option, but we have "evolved" to that point where we really don't take care of our tools, and expect so much from what is essentially very little, in the way of durable goods. If it were not for the collector ethos in some of us, knives produced before 1990 would probably never exist any more...they would simply tossed in the trash heap of easily replaceable, with a more "modern" even more disposable substitute as its replacement. Gee, how I long for that rotary phone, the party line, the buying of a nifty little 110 camera offered for sale on the back of a Bazooka bubble gum wrapper, and the fact that the only arms in one's house was there only for hunting season, and not for self defense.
 
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