i don't understand some of the overly abusive lock testing methods.

If you're stuck in the middle of nowhere with just your folder and you MUST use it under extreme conditions it's good to know how strong the lock is. However, these tests should be done in a lab by a machine while you're behind safety glass. Case in point, the Benchmade Adamas test.

[video=youtube_share;6ZwwLWQk664]http://youtu.be/6ZwwLWQk664[/video]
 
Ya guess we don't need any other types of guns only old hunting rifles and double barrel shotguns. See what I did there? Ignorance goes both ways. I'd rather have a safer locking knife to keep my fingers in case there are any accidents, thank you.

Everytime I hear the "no locks needed if you use the right tool logic" I think does this guy wish his car had no seat belts because he knows how to drive?
 
cards94 said:
We've all seen the videos where a folder lock is tested by beating the heck out of it in the woods to see if it holds up. i don't get it. if you beat the heck out of the knife and the lock fails, shouldn't that tell you to use a fixed knife for a heavy duty chore?
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Yeah, if I'm going into the wilderness, I'm always taking a fixed blade and a folder. I do like the Benchmade testing videos though. It's nice to know they aren't just cranking out blades not knowing how the knife performs. I enjoy watching them destroy knives. Not so much when it's just an average Joe doing it.
 
Seilu said:
Ya guess we don't need any other types of guns only old hunting rifles and double barrel shotguns. See what I did there? Ignorance goes both ways. I'd rather have a safer locking knife to keep my fingers in case there are any accidents, thank you.
Click to expand...

While Benchmade and Cold Steel may use their data to improve their locks, I don't believe that random youTubes of guys spinewhacking their Sebenzas causes Chris Reeve (to pick one maker) to alter the design in any way whatever. Therefore, those "tests" make zero contribution to product improvement. What they do, I believe, is show that there is a market for goofy Rambo-sized folders. And there are makers who have shown every intention of filling that market niche. I say that, and I'm carrying a ZT 0560 in my back pocket (I was going to switch out to the 0550, but I was running late today). However, I also have a small Kershaw in my front pocket for the usual tasks.

On the logic of these "tests". I'm an engineer by trade. While a single example of a single product failing in a particular way may be of some interest to the designer, there isn't enough there there. We need, oh, say twenty knives of the same model (preferably from the same run) failing in the exact same manner which means they have to be tested in the exact same manner which implies instrumentation--doesn't have to have instrumentation, but generally speaking engineers like data.

Seilu said:
Everytime I hear the "no locks needed if you use the right tool logic" I think does this guy wish his car had no seat belts because he knows how to drive?
Click to expand...

If he's the only guy on the road and is only driving 25 mph, that's a pretty valid position to take. There are a lot of people who use their knives as light duty cutting tools, not combat weapons, not agricutural implements, not construction prybars. In fact, I'd guess 90% of knife owners do exactly that. Maybe more.

While I'll agree that the "torture test video" rabbit hole may go quite deep, it's also quite narrow and gets narrower the farther down you go.
 
cards94 said:
We've all seen the videos where a folder lock is tested by beating the heck out of it in the woods to see if it holds up. i don't get it. if you beat the heck out of the knife and the lock fails, shouldn't that tell you to use a fixed knife for a heavy duty chore?
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That's ok, if you don't get it, then the vids are not for you. ;)
 
I get the controlled tests of the benchmade knives since they are productive tests. But the video where the guy stomps on a griptilian is just dumb lol
 
I "get" the role of destructive testing. However, as already noted, what we usually have is an anecdote, not testing, which is measured, repeatable, and repeated.

Further, I have a hard time relating most of these events to something I might actually have to do in a survival situation. For example, if I was going to need to baton with a folding knife, I would not have it locked.
 
I would actually like much more testing done. I'm talking about abuse to see if the lock fails; spine smashing for example.
Right now you see in one video a Spyderco lock fail and a Benchmade lock pass. And then you see some other videos where a Spyderco lock passes and a Benchmade lock doesn't in the same kind of tests.

I want much more consistent data and want professional testing done. So I know how I can use a knife or at least where it's limit is.
I saw the Andersson (Bladeforums member) Benchmade lock testing from a few years back and was extremely impressed. Then I saw another video on Youtube where the same Benchmade failed with much less abuse.

I read posts here about members with frame locks failing (and with failing I mean the blade closing which should not happen with a frame lock) while others swear their frame lock knives are the most sturdy ever.

I don't understand people like the op who don't want more information. I would like to know if I could abuse a certain knife like it's a fixed blade. Or if I should be careful like I'm using a slip joint.

I like a knife with a touch reliable lock. I use my cheap Chinese axis lock knife like a folding prybar. I know what this particular knife can do by using it but if there was reliable testing done I could use it in even more extreme ways.
Perhaps there are some locking folders which have 70% of the strength of a fixed blade. But we would never make use of that feature because we simply don't know.
 
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Shotgun said:
To each their own but I don't see how a ZT, Strider, etc is any more effective then a SAK. In fact I see them as less effective. YMMV
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I like a strong, reliable lock.
And my ZT's see more use than my SAK...at least the SAK blade (the tools are cool, but I'll fold it up, put it away, and pull a single bladed knife for blade work).
But I think the people on YouTube are generally rather silly, and I don't put much stock in their conclusions.

Of course, all my "hard use" knives get reprofiled so that they cut more efficiently than the factory edge is set for...an obtuse angle necessitated by the YouTube folks who think digging rocks is a great test of edge holding. :rolleyes:
 
the kid said:
I want much more consistent data and want professional testing done.
Click to expand...

This would be cool.
I could use consistent, scientific data.
I cannot use "Hulk smash spine on curb!" to glean relevant data.
 
But that is the issue. Is it "testing"? Are you getting useful information? I think usually not. Entertainment?

And why do you foresee "spine smashing" as even an emergency use? Using the knife as an emergency hammer?
 
the kid said:
I would actually like much more testing done. I'm talking about abuse to see if the lock fails; spine smashing for example.
Right now you see in one video a Spyderco lock fail and a Benchmade lock pass. And then you see some other videos where a Spyderco lock passes and a Benchmade lock doesn't in the same kind of tests.

I want much more consistent data and want professional testing done. So I know how I can use a knife or at least where it's limit is.
I saw the Andersson (Bladeforums member) Benchmade lock testing from a few years back and was extremely impressed. Then I saw another video on Youtube where the same Benchmade failed with much less abuse.

I read posts here about members with frame locks failing (and with failing I mean the blade closing which should not happen with a frame lock) while others swear their frame lock knives are the most sturdy ever.

I don't understand people like the op who don't want more information. I would like to know if I could abuse a certain knife like it's a fixed blade. Or if I should be careful like I'm using a slip joint.

I like a knife with a touch reliable lock. I use my cheap Chinese axis lock knife like a folding prybar. I know what this particular knife can do by using it but if there was reliable testing done I could use it in even more extreme ways.
Perhaps there are some locking folders which have 70% of the strength of a fixed blade. But we would never make use of that feature because we simply don't know.
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Very well written sir! :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Thomas Linton said:
And why do you foresee "spine smashing" as even an emergency use? Using the knife as an emergency hammer?
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I sure don't see it as anything useful at all.
Measurements of load taken so many inches from the pivot would be useful data.
A calibrated machine that applied impact in measureable ways could be useful.

If I was going to use a folder as an improvised hammer (bad idea), then I'd use the butt of the handle with the knife closed.
But I'd rather grab a rock or a piece of wood instead.
 
Thomas Linton said:
But that is the issue. Is it "testing"? Are you getting useful information? I think usually not. Entertainment?

And why do you foresee "spine smashing" as even an emergency use? Using the knife as an emergency hammer?
Click to expand...

No but it's an indication and it's all we have without professional scientific testing.
If it can stand up to spine smashing it probably can stand up to something a bit less abusive.

There's two ways of learning how much "abuse" a knife can take.
Learn from your own experience (for example I learned very early on, do not stab or pry to much with a slipjoint) or some else's experience.
 
I suggest that the "experience" of the "other" should be relevant to remotely likely uses of the knife and that isolated anecdotes have little - or no - value in making decisions.

A knife that can stand lots of 'abuse" may be incapable of holding a useful edge. Great tent peg. Poor knife.
 
the kid said:
No but it's an indication and it's all we have without professional scientific testing.
If it can stand up to spine smashing it probably can stand up to something a bit less abusive.

There's two ways of learning how much "abuse" a knife can take.
Learn from your own experience (for example I learned very early on, do not stab or pry to much with a slipjoint) or some else's experience.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I wonder why glock "unscientific" torture tests are an indication of how it performs under less than ideal conditions.
 
Unfortunately, there are no industry standards for folder lock strength and there probably never will. Some of the unscientific "tests" have folders in less than desirable condition and the tests are not repeatable.

The automobile industry may not be a good analogy but you can see the many layers of safety in each car, by manufacturer, by various governmental organizations, by various countries and even by insurance organizations.

Some companies sensationalize the attributes of their products through extreme marketing demonstrations. It's only when products are tested the precise same way by an independent entity do you start getting relevant and comparative data.
 
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