I got a knife confiscated today... (in Washington)

tom19176 said:
Looking at your camera under these circumstances was 100% correct for the officer to do. Chances are the reason you walked away with no charges is because he did look at what you took pictures of and saw you were not taking photos of the jail.
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Im not going to lie I refused to show them the pictures except for the ones I took while trespassing. I don't like people looking through my camera.
 
I gotta tell you, I'm the kind of guy that watches "Cops" and gets ticked when they hassle some guy for no apparent reason. I believe that we still have civil rights and should stand up for them.

That said, if you were on prison grounds with a weapon you are lucky they only took the knife and didn't take you in. I'm guessing your age helped you a little. In other circumstances, we could all debate if a knife is a weapon, but in context of taking it on prison grounds, I don't think you could win the argument.

A lack of "no trespassing" signs doesn't help either. I would guess that there were some you missed. Even if there weren't any, wasn't there a little voice in your head saying maybe its not the best idea to be on the prison grounds? I drive buy a couple of a prisons now and then and hear that voice. I visited a county jail by invitation last year (viewed the new 911 center) and felt very alert the whole time.

I'm not cracking on you. Just getting you to think about it.

My uncle used to be a military policeman and he told me about something like this from his side once. He was on duty when they got a call that two men were observed within the perimeter fence of the base. He and his team responded, making the assumption that the men were a threat (which is what the job requires.) The team came with loaded weapons and found two teenage kids just looking around. It could have gone really badly.
 
Unfortunately you did basically dodge the bullet on trespassing. I was getting all indignant over how you were treated and then I read your state's trespassing law. Under this law, there is nothing that says the property has to be marked or fenced. This is not so in my state (MD) where it says a charge can only stand if "conspicuously marked against trespass."

Regarding the gravity knife issue, holding the lock down and swinging a normal folder's blade open was ruled to be a gravity knife in NY, but every other state in the US to my knowledge has ruled against this interpretation, including WA.

But this is besides the point. It's up to you whether you want to pursue this since you technically were let go for a crime which you were guilty of, as the cost of a pocket knife as opposed to a fine and community service.
 
glistam, do you have info on the NY case you stated? I never heard that one, but I have seen officers do it out of court to convince someone their knife was a gravity knife. I never knew a judge went along with that BS.

As far as the knife the OP had, with this definition I believe any knife that is loose enough to swing open by holding the lock button down, will also open via a good thrust. I know I could get it to open that way:


" or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement"

It gets more and more clear that NY does not have the worst WRITTEN law ( it is enforced the wrong way). This law does not even require the knife to lock open like NY! Any day a LEO could take you in for any locking or non locking knife he can flick open!
 
Indeed I was referring to the same insane dealings in NY you speak of. And they are unfortunately based in caselaw.

I am having a lot of trouble locating the case itself that set the precedent, but several cases I have read allude to People v. Perez, 1986 and People v Berrier 1996. In a modern case People v Irizarry 2007, they state:

Officer Gutierrez picked up the knife and immediately tested it to see if it was a gravity knife by flicking it open and seeing if it locked into place. Once Officer Gutierrez concluded from his physical testing of the pocket knife that it was a gravity knife, the defendant was handcuffed and placed under arrest.
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Consistent among the cases are the element of it locking into place once open, and while difficult to be certain, it seems to me that locking means that some sort of device must be operated to close the blade, making slip-joints fall outside this meaning.

The gravity knife cases are quite numerous if you look up the search term in the NY State Law Reporting Bureau. A very problematic recurring theme that may reach all the back to the first case is police officer testimony being taken as "expert witness" holy scripture by judges when they testify as to whether a knife is a gravity knife. This is absurd by legal standards and NY is a bit infamous for this ruling. When something similar happened in Texas regarding AO's being ruled a switchblade, the legislature was appalled enough to change the state code to remedy the problem.
 
I am familar with the Irizarry case ( it was a single edge razor style work knife from Home Depot). I agree that the courts tend to agree with the officer, but I never saw a case where the judge determined the pressing of a lock release to allow the blade to swing freely was indeed a gravity knife...
 
tom19176 said:
I am familiar with the Irizarry case ( it was a single edge razor style work knife from Home Depot). I agree that the courts tend to agree with the officer, but I never saw a case where the judge determined the pressing of a lock release to allow the blade to swing freely was indeed a gravity knife...
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Oh now I see what you mean. I think I confused that with how a real gravity knife works. That is, that you operate some mechanism to release the blade in the first place. Operating a lock on a normal folder to this effect, I am not familiar with any case law in NY so I think you would be right.
 
The OP has my sympathies, but he is probably wise to just chalk it up as a lesson learned and not pursue it further.

Compliments to TOM19176 for posting the link to Washington state law. A cursory reading of the law to my layman's eyes would seem to indicate that any knife that could be 'flicked' open such as in a spydie drop would be illegal.

This is the relevant section of law.
Dangerous weapons — Penalty.

Every person who:

(1) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(2) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(3) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
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Per my reading of the law it seems all my Spydercos and my Benchmade Griptilians are illegal in Wash. as I can pinch the blade and 'fling' or 'flick' them open through centrifugal force.

Am I reading this law correctly?
 
cgmblade said:
Per my reading of the law it seems all my Spydercos and my Benchmade Griptilians are illegal in Wash. as I can pinch the blade and 'fling' or 'flick' them open through centrifugal force.

Am I reading this law correctly?
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That was similar to the issue being discussed about NY. In NY, yes such knives are considered to fall within a similarly-vague definition of "gravity knife" due to court rulings.

But in the state of Washington, I know of no such case law to date supporting this interpretation for the WA statute. There is no direct caselaw on the matter, in fact.

Call me optimistic, but I seriously doubt flicking a locking folder would be ruled to fall within this definition in WA. In State v. Miles, 1994, a defendant's conviction under this statute for carrying a paring knife was reversed and dismissed, because it was too vague to be applied in this manner to a person who clearly had no criminal intent to use it as a weapon. Could you be arrested? Sure you could, cops are certainly not perfect in interpreting laws and only you would know the general opinion of your local police force. But I doubt a challenge in court would hold up if you clearly were not doing anything else wrong to attract police attention in the first place.
 
The only time a cop ever wanted my knife was when I was messing around with it in a forest and he wanted to slice up some trees to. Turned out he really liked my RC-5.

Anyway, sorry about your loss. Technically, any knife can be opened by the force of gravity. Just go there and ask it back, worst they can do is say no.
 
hatchetjack said:
Did this happen near Echo Glen by any chance?
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I haven't ever heard of Echo Glen but it was in Monroe Washington, near the Monroe prison.

But I also forgot to mention they never read me my rights, and dropped us off at a local gas station.

But I have good news also. Im getting my knife back! So im pretty happy :D
 
Blood_Grooves said:
I haven't ever heard of Echo Glen but it was in Monroe Washington, near the Monroe prison.

But I also forgot to mention they never read me my rights, and dropped us off at a local gas station.

But I have good news also. Im getting my knife back! So im pretty happy :D
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Wow, congrats! on getting your knife back.

Questions; What do you mean drop you off? How did you get there in the first place?

They don't have to read you your rights until you are technically a suspect, which could be after the handcuffs are already on. In this situation it implies that they never intended to arrest you. Your age was probably a factor in your favor. They wanted to scare you. Not necessarily a bad thing. Be polite and gracious.

Details Please. How are you getting your knife back?
 
cgmblade said:
Wow, congrats! on getting your knife back.

Questions; What do you mean drop you off? How did you get there in the first place?

They don't have to read you your rights until you are technically a suspect, which could be after the handcuffs are already on. In this situation it implies that they never intended to arrest you. Your age was probably a factor in your favor. They wanted to scare you. Not necessarily a bad thing. Be polite and gracious.

Details Please. How are you getting your knife back?
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They put us in the back of the cop car and asked us where we wanted to go. Us being kids, and wanting to avoid our parents after being arrested, told him to drop us off at the gas station.

Since the Manix 2 isn't even an illegal knife my mom went and retrieved it threatening to file a complaint. :D lol
 
ughh. i hear about this alot......i probally woulda taken the knife too - as ure friend had an illegal blade.......sucks bro....sounds like you handled youeself well...and had the family to back you up....good job...if you did nothing wrong - then there is no reason to be afraid or have your knife conviscated (permanently)...but u went about it in the right way to get it back.

the cop took it off u cause:
ure friend had an illegal knife
u are below the age of majority
u were commiting an offense with a weapon

again - good job handling yourself...and even better on your mom for helping get back a good knife....i hope this doesnt persuade you from EDC-just part and parcel of the process.
 
That's awesome! Glad you got it back. As you probably could tell, some of us have gotten a little cynical about this kind of thing, so it is great to see justice done. I'm going to add this to my archive of successes for the knife enthusiast.
 
MadeInCanada said:
ughh. i hear about this alot......i probally woulda taken the knife too - as ure friend had an illegal blade.......sucks bro....sounds like you handled youeself well...and had the family to back you up....good job...if you did nothing wrong - then there is no reason to be afraid or have your knife conviscated (permanently)...but u went about it in the right way to get it back.

the cop took it off u cause:
ure friend had an illegal knife
u are below the age of majority
u were commiting an offense with a weapon

again - good job handling yourself...and even better on your mom for helping get back a good knife....i hope this doesnt persuade you from EDC-just part and parcel of the process.
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You are applying Canada Law to a US State.
 
I had an Emerson Benchmade taken during a traffic stop. I also barley touched an officer so I ended up bleeding out of my eye/nose/face/mouth. I was pulled for BS and I wouldn't allow a search. He grabbed at my pocket and I reflexively moved. So I followed them back to the PD in my illegally searched car covered in blood, but that knife was discontinued. I reported the mugging along with the s&s. After 20 min of face swelling, I was given my knife back probably due to the attention. I was not allowed to give a statement. I was told to leave and this was in Texas.

Go see if your knife was turned in with paperwork. Don't be a sheeple-you got ripped off.
 
You may have blundered into a restricted zone in innocence but unless you work in the industry you may find it difficult to get your head around some of the issues - try and see things from the LE perspective. Security around jails isn't just taken seriously - security is EVERYTHING! We tend to not show much sense of humour when we perceive a potential threat.

You were lucky - get onto the restricted area around my jail and the dog patrol is likely to bail you up - and those puppies like to bite! Don't know what your local laws are but over here, once on prison property you can be searched and your property siezed if it is deemed contraband - knives, cameras, mobile phones are all classified as contraband. It's a whole different world behind the razorwire - we're not exactly running a Club Med - although the Civil Libertarians think we should be
 
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