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I Hate Stainless!!!!!

OleyFermo said:
Hi, Phil

Tried to email ya (but you don't accept email) about maybe you and me having a little cutting competition of our own... your stainless blades against my old won't-cut, rust-bucket, high carbon, pathetic attemps at making something with an edge... with a wager on the outcome just to make things fun. And another little wager... your stainless against a blade forged by my wife, Maggie. If ya want to pick up some real easy cash, email me at OleyFermo@aol.com and let's work out the details. I live in Jasper, so we're not that far apart. I may even be able to bring along Don Fogg and ya can really clean up.

Mods... if this is out of line, just delete and I'll reword.:)

Jimmy Can't Cut Worth Flip Fikes ;)

Really cool, Jimmy -- except he said nothing of the kind about your knives -- or Maggie's for that matter. At least I don't associate you with "cheap" knives. Reasonable for what you get, sure. "Cheap"? Nope. The man just doesn't want to deal with the minus that comes with the plus. Free country.
 
Carbon is awesome! I love Fixed blades in carbon. That rusty patina that happens on carbon knives, really beautiful.

That said, a good folder, all the high priced ones use exceptional steel. I have no problems sharpening them. There is something about ats 34 or 55 that has some interesting lines in the steel itself.

The really issue here is money! A stainless FB usually costs tons more that a carbon one.
 
I'll take both. Stainless for folders and carbon or tool steels for fixed blades.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Really cool, Jimmy -- except he said nothing of the kind about your knives -- or Maggie's for that matter. At least I don't associate you with "cheap" knives. Reasonable for what you get, sure. "Cheap"? Nope. The man just doesn't want to deal with the minus that comes with the plus. Free country.

Hi, Thomas

Quite true that Phil mentioned neither my work, nor Maggie's. But then he did write this:

"The only reason carbon steel knives are even still being made is to satisy the small demand for them from people who for whatever reason and tradition won't be satisfied with anything else."

If Phil decides to take me up on the idea, I believe I can show him at least one reason besides tradition for the making of carbon steel blades. Now, maybe 'sharpness and edgeholding' will fall under the 'whatever reason' that Phil mentions, but who knows? My post was for educational purposes as much as anything else. Either Phil will get an education, or I will... and I'm always looking to further mine.

I hope the post didn't come across as mean-spirited, or too abrasive. Didn't write it with that intent... and if it did, then I apologize to all the forumites who I might have offended. I'm perfectly content that there should be stainless blades. When I'm out in public in places where I don't want a knife visible, I carry a folder with a stainless blade... a Spyderco, to be specific... which was given to me years ago by Hank Reinhardt. Or maybe I should modify that statement. Hank was here for a visit, had the Sypderco with him... I asked to look at it and said, "Give me this. I'm shameless. Hank, being Hank, let me have the knife without shooting me. There may be two dozen stainless steels that will perform better than properly worked high carbon (not just my blades, but blades by any of the smiths who know what they're doing), but I've yet to see one. I have a buddy who buys every new folder that comes down the line. I get to sharpen them, one and all (I'm *so* very lucky!)... and my payment for sharpening is that I get to try out the folders for edgeholding. I have not been impressed. Thus, my reply to Phil.

Jimmy:)
 
Jimmy, all the man talks about is folding knives. In that, he joins many others in prefering SS. I like both. He doesn't. He can't have my New York Knife Co. slip joints. He doesn't want them. Different strokes.

You enthuse for carbon steel and make knives of very high repute.

I guess I don't see the occasion for throwing down the gauntlet.

Peace.
 
Cool, I've been quoted! :D No need for any little competition, I'm sure that a well made forged carbon steel blade would most likely outcut just about any production grade stainless blade. Now I didn't necessarily say that I didn't like carbon steels at all, just that in general, I do prefer stainless. If you have any spare New York Knife Co. slips laying around all lonely and unused, I'll take 'em, and polish and baby them, and use them and enjoy it. ;)

There are many different knives, many different blade materials, all serve a purpose, even if but a small niche. I'm a general purpose knife user. For my needs and uses, the stainless blades, good ones, not Pakistan or China flea market blades, serve just fine. I don't need knives that are suitable for rope cutting competitions, splitting firewood, or fighting it out with Nazi werewolf zombies, just sharpening pencils, cleaning fingernails, opening packages and boxes, picking splinters, scoring plastics, and if I've been out hunting, I want one that'll skin and gut whatever it is I've shot and killed. I'd really hate to imagine what a finely made beautiful hand forged knife would look like after being submerged in blood and guts, then sloshed in a creek to wash off the crud and stuffed back in the sheath.

I still have some carbon steel knives, and I take good care of them. But one example of what can happen to carbon steel knives: My grandfather died in 1954. I was born in 1965, so we obviously never got to meet. We inherited the old homeplace from my grandmother, did a bunch of repairs and redecorating, and moved in during the middle of 1998. While going through all of the junk in boxes, cartons, and drawers on this place, I found an old knife that had belonged to my grandfather. It is a Pal Blade Company scout knife, and it has the patented Remington 2 piece can opener in it, with yellowish bone sides. The problem is, it was rusted shut, and caked inside and out with black and brown rust. The bolsters and liners were steel, as were the blades, so it was all rusted. The knife is ruined for further use, but since it's a keepsake, I wanted it preserved at least enough to look at for rememberance. I had to soak it for weeks in oil before it would even open. Took a lot of work with fine sandpaper, rust remover,etc, before it looked even presentable, and there's still brown oily glop that runs out of the pivots when it's opened. Stainless wouldn't have been like that.

The whole point of the beginner to this thread was a comment biased against and criticizing stainless steels. All I wanted to point out was that in my experiences, using the commonly available production grade knives, that the stainless steels have proven to cut and hold the edge as long as any carbon I've experienced, without any corrosion. Now if anybody wants to actually pit a custom forged high grade carbon steel knife against a production grade medium quality stainless slipjoint or small hunter belt knife, go ahead and let 'er rip, it'd make interesting reading if nothing else, even if it had no relevancy to a real world average knife user. I said it before and I'd have to say it once more, if stainless steels were so bad and carbon steels so wonderful, then the stainless blades wouldn't be on 90% of all knives being sold and carbon steels on 10%.

Bet I can take my Schrade 25OT Hunter out and pit it against my Case 6265SS, and find not a shred of discernable performance differences. I have only one blade in S30V, a Buck Signature 805, but it sliced up a few rabbits and squirrels last year without getting unseemingly dull, so maybe stainless is OK??????????Compared to the Schrade Old Timer Sharp Finger, it was considerably better cutting and easier to use. But whadda I know!:foot:
 
I love carbon steel. I wish someone would make a locking folder out of 52100 and sell it commercially. There must be a manu who can do it.
 
Boozoo Chavis said:
I'm not sure the Northwoods Scagel stag or Ivory reproduction would be a replacement for a Sebbie or Strider but it's a fairly large, stout knife made of 1095. (ain't too hard on the eyes, either)
http://www.vintageknives.com/tek9.asp?pg=products&grp=65

20870sm2.jpg
20868sm2.jpg

what would a piece like that go for?

pete
 
Eric J said:
I love carbon steel. I wish someone would make a locking folder out of 52100 and sell it commercially. There must be a manu who can do it.

It seems to me from what I've read on the forums that Sal Glesser of Spyderco pays quite a bit of attention to his customer's wishes. If enough people voiced this opinion to him, he might be the very man to do it. Wouldn't hurt to drop him a note, and the same goes with reps from the other companies. If any of the major companies came out with a locking folder with a properly profiled and correctly heat-trated HC blade, I'd shell out some bucks for one... and so would lots of other people. I love my Opinels, but a really good one hand locker would be extra fine.:thumbup:

Jimmy
 
We've had this "why do you say you HATE"-discussion before. It's all right as a rhetorical device, but had better been followed by a more substantial reasoning than the thread starter gave.
Myself, I like carbon blades better too, for their liveliness and character as much as for the superior Rockwells... but like most posters, I accept 'stainless' steels in folders. VG-10 is even used by the Japanese for the core/cutting layer of some of their more modern FBs!
 
chrisaloia said:
Carbon is awesome! I love Fixed blades in carbon. That rusty patina that happens on carbon knives, really beautiful.

I hope you're joking....
But in case you're not, let me just say that there wasn't anything "really beautiful" about the thick layer of rust that was on my Camillius-made kabar knife; after I got caught outside in the rain, while wearing it. :thumbdn:
 
Picked up a really nice Bulldog brand folding hunter today, in "GASP!" carbon steel. I love it, perfect size and shape, came a little dull, but that was fixed promptly, now it'll slice and dice like a proper knife should. This was some pretty hard steel, took several minutes to sharpen vs. some softer blades. A little TLC will keep 'er rust free. :D
 
monocrom,

No I am not joking at all. I have a FB hunter in 52100 and that blade has a bluish glow to it along with a tiny bit of pitting.

Once you sand the rust down and put some oil on that KBAR, it will sing. There is a "TING" to carbon that stainless blades just don't know about.


Why are people so afraid of rust? It is not like your knife is going to disintegrate before your very eyes.
 
chrisaloia said:
monocrom,

No I am not joking at all. I have a FB hunter in 52100 and that blade has a bluish glow to it along with a tiny bit of pitting.

Once you sand the rust down and put some oil on that KBAR, it will sing. There is a "TING" to carbon that stainless blades just don't know about.


Why are people so afraid of rust? It is not like your knife is going to disintegrate before your very eyes.

Sing?..... Well, this happened several years ago. That particular kabar knife was sanded down. Most of the rust was gone. But it's not like it was something that was accomplished in a few minutes! Why go through that sort of hassel? I'd rather spend my free-time doing something more fun.

Plus, the edge suffered the worst of the rust! When the sanding was done, the edge came out horribly uneven! I'm not talking about a simple, "Let's just re-profile the edge." I'm talking about standing there, looking at the knife in your hand, realizing how much work it took to get the rust off, and wondering why you didn't just get a stainless steel blade instead. :grumpy:

Sometimes it's not as easy as wiping the blade off and putting a light coating of oil on it, every time you finish using it.
 
Something occurred to me over the weekend that I thought I'd relate. It's just an observation. I was reading an old copy of National Geographic (can't remember the issue, we have a bunch laying around the house) and they had a spread on rural Romania. They showed some villagers prepping for a pig slaughter. The knives in hand, the knives these rugged villagers were fixin' to use to process the meat they'd be living on for some while? Stainless.

Likewise, some years back I had the great fortune to attend a "zabijacka," loosely translated from the Czech as "pig slaughter party" at an inn deep in the Sumava forest in the southeast Czech Republic. We're talking about a serious rural area - these were good Bohemian country folk. The knives used by the village butcher who'd been hired to come dismember the guest of honor? Stainless.

Don't know what to make of these recollections but I guess it does show that pampered Americans aren't the only ones these days opting for easier-to-care-for stainless steel knives.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisaloia
Carbon is awesome! I love Fixed blades in carbon. That rusty patina that happens on carbon knives, really beautiful.


I hope you're joking....
But in case you're not, let me just say that there wasn't anything "really beautiful" about the thick layer of rust that was on my Camillius-made kabar knife; after I got caught outside in the rain, while wearing it.

Don't get "rust" confused with a nice "patina".
A patina can be very nice in a carbon knife--it is the bluish-blackish coating that a carbon blade aquires over time.

But I don't find rust to be beautiful at all.
And I sure don't want to cut my food with a rusty knife.

As for the "carbon vs stainless" debate:
Carbon might offer some advantages in a very large blade (like a machete or an ax), but I can see no real use advantage in a pocket-knife or tactical folder.
 
Majority of Knife users it all boils down to personal preference. Most knife users never tax their knives cutting abilities so basic 440c or 1095 will do them just fine. But knife nuts analyze their steel choices like they will someday be relying upon a single knife to get them through armageddon.

Stainless - easier to maintain clean.

Carbon - easier to maintain an edge.

Both cut things.
 
Allenc,

I am not sure what you call it....that darkening of the blade with the bluish black patina. Dark pitting with a high polish looks cool to me. I thought it was part of the oxidatization of iron???

Excuse me if i miss name it.


Thanks

chris
 
Big Ugly Tall Texan said:
Except for some very limited applications... such as those display knives that I plan to close up in a display box and hang on the wall, I HATE stainless steel knives. What makes it worse is I have a hard time finding carbon blades.

Personally I like carbon steel over stainless... in fact only stainless I have is a fillet knife :D

Here's a link to one page that has pretty interesting scandi knives with carbon steel blades...


http://www.cloudberrymarket.com/servlet/the-KNIVES-fdsh--PUUKOT-cln-Finnish-Puukko/Categories
 
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