I have seen the light, and it's a belt sander.

Thom, I have two reasons for preferring edge trailing.

I think most would find it easier to estimate the angle by looking down on the angle between the blade and the belt. I find it easier in any case.

I also like the leather belt a lot. Everyone can decide about them for themselves of course, but I'm sold on their fine finish capabilities. There are other belts besides those you list that some might be tempted to try edge on. Hard felt belts and plain cloth belts with compound are among those. I just wanted to acknowledge there might be others that deserve some thought before using. You also can not exclude a belt bond failure where the belt will first peel up on on one side, which would create a similar hazzard.

I really don't care which people do, but I do have strong reasons for preferring the edge trailing method, and don't see any advantages to edge forward. This isn't about people who are skilled in the method, most having learned edge trailing. This is mostly about people just getting started. The easier and safer we make it the better it is for them. They can always change what they do later.

The machete and Swiss Army knives are the tools of choice for "Survival" needs IMO. "Outdoor" is a little too broad and "Tactical" is definitely another matter. If someone wants a real chopper I think it's hard to beat a properly sharpened Ontario. I'm just amazed at how well they can cut.

Once again though, it's always a matter of personal choice. Green side up, green side down... :)
 
I usually prefer the edge trailing 320 then loaded leather belt combo. I still want to try the finer belts Jerry recommends. 320/leather gets a very sharp edge that, as far as I can see is completely clean under the radio shack 60x magnifier. I wanted to try the very coarse edges Cliff advocates on these 3 knives. These are soft kitchen knives, and I had the belt pretty tight and was pushing enough to deflect it (the belt) slightly. There is also the weakened metal issue, since they constantly get chips and banged around in the dishwasher. So, it looks like practice is the key. On the other hand, they took a very crisp and agressive edges on the Norton Fine using it to remove the burr. Perhaps metal cutting belts would be better, since I'm pretty sure these are for wood. I recall that you (Cliff) checked your results from the sander by trying it with belts hooked over something. Perhaps that would be the place to start, since I dont have a knife to sacrifice to the sander to learn how to do it.
 
I have a Harbor Freight (HF) 1x30 (and mine works :D), and some 80 grit belts from HF. I also have a variety of belts being shipped from Lee Valley, including leather.

I've been practicing on some crappy old knives (no-name kitchen knives, moras), and prefer edge trailing, as it's a whole lot less scary for me. But I have a very hard time getting the same angle twice. Even when I'm sober. ;)

What I'm interested in are the 2 extremes.

1. I want to hog off major amounts of metal for thinning out the primary grinds on some of my knives, using the edgepro can take hours. To that end, I have some belts ranging from 40 to 1200 coming from HF. I probably don't need to take it that fine, but I'd eventually like to make the grinds look fairly decent. 80 grit gouges are fugly. I'll leave them on my corn knife, but that's about it.

2. I want to try using the leather belt with diamond/CrO (I have both) to see if I can duplicate some of Verhoeven's results. He uses a leather wheel on the Tormek machine, loaded with CrO, and the results (under magnification) were some of the most beautiful, clean edges I've ever seen. I know the Tormek only rotates at 90 rpm, and he fed the edge through about an inch per second, IIRC. I'm concerned with heat buildup, so will need to be more nimble, but what the heck?

If you've seen his edges, you'd understand. Just wait till Gunmike1 sees them, $10 says he drools on himself.... :D
 
I've never had a problem with heat build up from the leather. It will make the knife hot, but its never caused any color changes or been hot enough to burn my hands.
 
Thanks for your replies, Jerry. I like the way you worded that.

Sodak,

I have a new sander now and have realized that it is indeed faster than my D8XX. Ironically, it's sometimes quieter. I still like my D8XX more. :p
 
sodak said:
If you've seen his edges, you'd understand. Just wait till Gunmike1 sees them, $10 says he drools on himself.... :D
Click to expand...

The drool is still puddling after seeing Verhoevens edges. A plebian like me still makes due with DMT's, Spyderco Ceramics, and some of Thom Brogan's fabric softener (OK, polishing cloth) glue sticked to a plastic clipboard. With those remedial tools and my remedial skiils no wonder why I can't get a .1 micron edge that is perfectly aligned. I do get my knives sharp enough to do a passable job cutting, though. I still marvel at how Spyderco can turn out their rediculously sharp edges on an assembly line with power tools, I need those type of skills. Tom Krein's power sanded edges are quite impressive, too.

I agree with Thom, power equipment may be faster, but the D8XX still rules! This is coming from a man with belt sander envy, so take that statement for what it's worth. I'm moving to a place with only a 1 car garage, but I really need to make a place for a sander and grinder to go along with my reloading equipment (they don't call me gunmike for nothing).

Mike
 
IIRC, your edges are a whole lot sharper than mine. Thom's are wicked too! I'll let you know how the leather and Cr0 works, I'm encouraged by what me2 says. Maybe I'll get to 5 or 10 microns if I don't sneeze. Or hiccup.
 
Ok, I went at a china made HSN folder using edge in and a 120 grit belt last night. It took nerves of steel and a VERY light touch, but I made a few passes and AFAIK, removed the burr without creating a new one. The edge felt very grabby when cutting arm hair, which it would do, barely, but I did not see the sharpness Cliff reports. The angle was about 17-22. I can't find my pocket microscope to check the edge, so there may still have been a little burr left. I finished off with a few swipes on the Fine India, and this produced a very sharp edge that was very aggressive, just like on the kitchen knives. I suspect that the weakened metal issue at the very edge has much more to do with sharpening than most suspect. Cliff, can you refence a review or section where you explored this in detail? FWIW, I cannot duplicate this with a 120 grit belt hooked over the vice and held tight. The abrasive is large enough that it feels like cutting into the sand grains, and the edge will occasionally slide along a grain instead of passing over it, dulling the edge. I'm obviously using a "slice a thin piece off the stone" stroke. 220 appears to be the breaking point for this effect, as it doesnt happen on these. The effect appears less pronounced on wet/dry paper as well, but I dont have any handy in the coarse grits to check. I'm going by memory.
 
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