I just dont like 440C!

Oops my bad, the Scallion is 420. Oh well I ordered another BM42 and Im sure its the later 440C model. I will keep that one pristine and beat the other I have up. Im not too good with a Bali.
 
I cetainly do not think that your initial post was in the least bit trollish. You reported what you thought of 440C. I am sure that you did so because you have had some bad experiences with this steel.
 
It's worth a try to be proven wrong.
I didn't think spyderco was that comfortable, and thought the price was out of my range... Tell that to the Endura that I'm loving now ;)
 
440A - Don't know, don't care. Haven't seen a knife in it that I liked anyway, really.

440C - Love it. Works like a champ for me.

440V - Hate it. Have avoided buying knives I liked simply because they were only available in 440V. Gotta be the worst stuff on the planet ("premium steel" wise), if it is a production knife. Custom, don't know. Have avoided it like the plague in custom knives, because I'm afraid I'll pay all that money for a custom that I HATE. :mad:
 
I hate to agree with this guy but 440C is not that good. IMO the edge holding is average among the cheaper stainless steels, its not as easy to sharpen as most carbon steels but for a stainless its ok. There are other steels out there that are better and the same price if not cheaper so i see no reason to get a knife in 440C. However i only buy customs now so i get to select the steel, if there was a production knife that only came in 440C and i loved the design would i buy it? Probably not, id save up and get a custom :D. 440C just doesnt do it for me i guess, now S30V, thats a stainless steel :D
 
Originally posted by rockspyder


440V - Hate it. Have avoided buying knives I liked simply because they were only available in 440V. Gotta be the worst stuff on the planet ("premium steel" wise), if it is a production knife. Custom, don't know. Have avoided it like the plague in custom knives, because I'm afraid I'll pay all that money for a custom that I HATE. :mad:
Click to expand...

Rock,

What is it specifically that you don't like about 440V? I am really interested...I have a Spyderco Native that has been my most dependable EDC for a long time...In my experiences with knives of all types with blades of all types of steel, it has impressed me AS MUCH AS any other 'cept for INFI.
 
I've found 440V to be the ultimate NIGHTMARE in sharpening. It is the steel from hell. I've turned down buying a Kershaw Boa, just because of the steel. I LOVE the Boa, but love no knife enough to surfer through sharpening 440V.

With that said, I very much like my 440V Military. I may throw it out the next time it comes to sharpening it, but I'll smile until then. I pray to God that Spyderco ditches 440V, and reissues the Militray in VG-10 or S30V.
 
That is interesting. I remember when 440V came into vogue that it was touted as improving on 440C. I remember seeing the ol' hemp rope cutting test in a knife mag and it kept its edge longer etc etc. My experience with 440 is its always been hard to sharpen compared to just carbon steel and it make sense due to the composition.

BTW Just got my Kershaw Scallion today and man is this thing sharp! Nice design, Im tempted to get the more expensive chive in stainless. Im interested in how the 420 is going to behave.
 
Buzz, I've got a Boa I'd sell you cheap.;)

Just kidding--I know I'm still a lowly Basic Member, and the knife isn't for sale anyway.

I am with you. I love the Boa's design, blade shape, ergonomics,etc. , but I wish it had something besides 440V for steel. It's a pain in the posterior to sharpen, and that's an understatement. I've got DMT hones, a Sharpmaker, and more benchstones than I care to type, and I don't use the Boa much because I hate sharpening it so bad.

I know this is a controversial statement, and probably a reflection of my sharpening ability, but I can't seem to put the same quality of edge on it that I can my other knives, no matter what I do. I know, all you guys that like the stuff can put a wicked edge on yours. More power to you. I don't intend to buy another knife made out of the stuff. At least it would have to be something really special.

But wait...this thread was supposed to be about 440C. It's ok, nothing to write home about, but it gets the job done. It has never greatly surprised me with unexpectedly spectacular performance, but it has never really disappointed me either.
 
Originally posted by Don Adelfson
What is it specifically that you don't like about 440V? I am really interested...I have a Spyderco Native that has been my most dependable EDC for a long time...In my experiences with knives of all types with blades of all types of steel, it has impressed me AS MUCH AS any other 'cept for INFI.
Click to expand...

Don, rather than hijack this thread to 440V any further, I'd ask that you do a search on 440V and my handle. I'd bet there is a boatload of postings that explain my feelings, and experience, much better than I could summarize here. In short:


Suffice it to say that in a sid
  • My Bladeforums Special Edition Native was the genesis of my experience with 440V, and it was not good.
  • In spite of my experience with the 440V Native, I had to have a Military (don't regret the purchase, but I'd rather have had even ATS-34 in it).
  • Head to head comparison, as best numerically as I could, to M2 and Talonite had the Military holding its edge about half as good as Talonite (not surprising), about 2/3 as good as M2 (surprising).
  • In spite of its penchant for dumping its edge, 440V IS pretty difficult to sharpen. Very difficult to get back to a razor edge, which it again dumps quickly.

All my experience with 440V is in production knives (Spyderco). While I think Spyderco is a GREAT knife company, I think they screwed the pooch on their treatment of 440V. Don't EVER hit anything relatively hard material with the edge, unless you want it practically reprofiled (essentially is what was done -- by the factory -- to my Native after hitting a magazine type staple).

OK, so I hijacked the thread a little more. Sorry. But I hate it when someone just says "Do a search." :)

I'll take 440C over 440V any day, and wouldn't bat an eye if a knife only came in 440C. No, it won't hold its edge as good as D2 or BG42. But it will hold it nearly as well as 154CM and ATS-34, cuts aggressively even after it has lost its edge a bit, and is easy to sharpen (in the Griptilian line). What's not to like?
 
Regarding the BOA, recurves are hard to sharpen as matching the angle is much more difficult than on straight edges. The easiest solution is to have someone hog the metal off the edge until the whole thing is very acute. Then you should be able to touch it up easily, and it will adapt to whatever profile you naturally create.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I'm working on that. When I have some spare time, I get the Boa out and take a little more steel off. It is just going to take a while as I am not going to sit down and spend the time to get it done in one sitting.

I expect that it will be more tractable after I get it worked down.

But even with that, I am not a big fan of the stuff.
 
Boy has this thread had a lot of twists and turns. I love it!

What I have found is that steels will either be great in some areas and bad in others or they will be acceptable but not exceptional all around performers. I put 440C into the later camp. It gets the job done. I prefer the basic high carbon, low chromium steels, but I certainly will not shy away from a knife because it has a 440C blade.
 
Edited to remove my input regarding errant statement on steel in the Scallion.
 
Hello AKADave,

Is there any chance you might have gotten one of those allegedly "custom" 440C knives some unscrupulous handle makers sell using ready made blades from knife supply companies? When I was new to knife buying I found a "custom" maker's website who advertised 440C knives at what were much lower prices than charged by most custom makers. After buying three knives from this guy, I happened to notice that many of his blades looked remarkably like the 440C blades sold by Jantz Supply.

Now this guy describes on his website how he makes his blades by the stock removal method and sends them out for heat treating. I found another "custom" maker who also advertised knives with blades that looked like the Jantz blades, although this one did not specifically claim to make his own blades (didn't say otherwise, either).

Anyhow, I have wondered how good these 440C blades really are? The prices charged for them are low, so I would not think they have had a superlative heat treatment.
 
No, I havent gotten any 440C blades from custom makers. Most of my customs are forged,Damascus or ATS-34. I have some classic production knives like Blackjacks and old Marbles, I also like Hubertus autos. I have had various cheap knives marked as 440C that havent cut it (sorry for the pun) but then again I have had very spendy knives that were lemons too. Im going to do the objective thing and start over and give it a fair shake.
 
IMO there's not a thing wrong with a properly heat treated 440C blade. I have often gotten my panties in a bunch over the disparaging words of knife users who complain that they won't spend hundreds of dollars on a custom folder if it's made of "inferior" 440C. Steel snobbery is all it is. Yes, there are better steels out there for sure and a few better stainless steels but it still makes a darn fine knife if done right.
 
Ah we all have our druthers. I like plain ol' 1095 warts an all! Were you really get a dividing line is Stock Removal vs. Forged. Now thats a fight!
 
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