i know you've all seen the"shop at home knives.....

Kelt, Let me see if I can explain the difference as I see it. Shawn isn't here to sell us Knockoffs that other guy was.
Shawn is just explaining what he did and asking for opinions. Now some might say these are just a POS and shouldn't be sold to anyone at any time, fact is that they are. Why? Because somebody is buying them, even people like Shawn's co-workers who knew exactly what they were buying. These people are not looking for a hi-performance knife, and probably think that there's something wrong with us for paying so much. Who's right , who's wrong, who cares? Nobody was hurt here, nobody was fooled and nobody was cheated. They may come back to Shawn for more knives, I say good for him. Which makes more sense paying $10 for a knife and using it until it falls apart, or paying $10,000 for a knife and never use it at all? For me neither one, but it's not my call. Or really anyone else's beside the buyer and the seller. We should get off of our high horses and grow up, and stop putting down people who don't believe the same as we do. Fact is we are in the minority, most people don't look at knives the way Forum members do. Maybe we should support each other a little more. What do you think?
 
Hmmmm...Paracelsus...swiss, died in 1541, rumored to have become insane due to inhaling noxious fumes from alchemic concoctions...
 
Kelt34 - maybe because some of us haven't bothered to read this thread until now...

Shawn - You want an opinion? Sure... I think what you did was unethical and a disservice to the knife industry. You bought knives that you knew were POS's. You deliberately misrepresented the quality of these knives by trying to pass them off as "similar" to a Benchmade. Using "weasel words" is a long-standing tactic of unethical salespeople. You marked them up 500-1500%, then laughed because you pulled a fast one on so many of your uninformed coworkers. Instead of screwing them, you should be instructing them on the merits of having a quality knife instead of a POS. You might have made a handsome profit from this episode, but your reputation is something that's hard to get back once ruined. How much money is that worth?

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Kelly

SenatorsPlace.com
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice


 
Well honestly speaking, if they all knew where the knives were from (Shop At Home).... and they're all happy with their purchase...then it should be fine. That doesn't mean that I would do it.
redface.gif


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-Humpty

Proverbs 23:2

AKTI Member # A000984

 
Shawn,
I am new to the forum. Your post was the push I needed to sign up.

Everyone who has responded has offered valid points. I have thought about selling some of the low dollar, flea market specials. My personal ethics require me to ask one question before I will sell anything or give it as a gift: "Is this and item I would be willing to use on a regular basis?"
If the answer is "no" then I cannot offer it for sale.

Although you may not have intended to deceive any of your co-workers, your practice of showing the BM and selling the POS is deceptive. Would you be willing to carry and use what you sell?


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Travis Autry
He never met a (quality) knife he didn't like!
 
Travis - Welcome aboard! Glad to see you finally joined up. Drop me a line if you'd ever be interested in coming to the Charlotte or Winston-Salem shows with us. Between the two cities there are about a dozen shows a year. I'm not sure if you're close enough to drive or not, but if you are we'd love to have you.

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Kelly

SenatorsPlace.com
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice


 
Well, some people are congratulating you on your entrepreneurial spirit, and others are condemning you to eternal damnation for ripping off your co-workers. So here are my thoughts, for what they're worth:

If your co-workers knew what they were buying (i.e., POS knives), you did nothing wrong. HOWEVER, you could have done something right -- not being wrong is not the same as being right. Instead of making a few hundred bucks that will soon be gone, you could have educated your co-workers as to why they should be buying a quality knife (and there are quality knives available for a lot less than your $100 Benchmade). Right now they may think you did them a favor, but you passed on the opportunity to actually do so.

Dave (a firm believer in personal responsibility)

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Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of More Knives

 
Phil, WHAT?! trust me, i don't need you trying to explain anything to me about the rights and wrongs here; i see exactly where you're coming from. wonder how you'd feel if you bought a car from someone like Shawn. BTW, fellow, what you're using for your argument sure ain't logic. what Shawn and the "other guy selling knock-off Spydercos" are doing is the same. they sold....(Drumroll please)...Knives....for....(second Drumroll)...money...and both feel justified even though their products are...(Final drumroll)....POS. that's not to hard to understand? and please, don't tell me that if this happened to you before you knew the difference between POS and decent knives that you wouldn't still be pissed off by somebody laughing at your ignorance. you certainly would be; regardless of thinking that you got a good deal, you would not like somebody posting those "LOL" messages about how you were duped. sorry, doesn't work for me. p.s., i'm all grown up. part of being grown up is NOT saying "who cares" but realizing there is a right and wrong way to treat others, in business as well as personal life. you can call that being up on a high-horse; i'll call it having a sense of morals.
 
Ok guys, I think we're all getting a bit too hot in here. I know Shawn asked for opinion, but he didn't want to get attacked...well i think he didn't want to get attacked...anyways, it's all been said and done, so let's keep the personal references minimal ok? Cool deal... Thanks guys.

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-Humpty

Proverbs 23:2

AKTI Member # A000984

 
ok everyone, i'm not mad at any of your replies for starters, i just wanted an opinion. i think some of you didn't read all of my post's on this either. for one i tried to inform these people of quality knives and they didn't seem to care, they wanted more of what i had to offer, for seconds i didn't try to pass of these knives off as benchmades in any way,if you read one of my follow ups on this you would know that! these people have all seen this show and wanted the knives i bought from it. so if you guys like, i can remove myself from this forum if i'm that bad of a guy for doing this,though i'd rather not cause i really like it...lol.and all my lol's were not laughing in these people's faces.i gave them what they wanted period...end of story.sorry if i got a bit upset
 
Chill OUT GUYS! We all need to try to get along here. I did the best I could to express how I felt without resorting to being nasty. Now you guys are going and attacking other folks as well. It's the BUYERS responsibility to make a Sound Purchase, don't you ALL agree? I'm not sure that Shawn understood what I said and some others were trying to tell him, but SO WHAT? Do YOU understand everything about everything?

Kelt34, Senator, et. al., I know you feel strongly about this issue, and so do I, but It is not our problem. Say what you want in a reasonable and civil manner. It's up to Shawn (who posted here to begin with) and his buyers to figure this stuff out for themselves. I did NOT read ANYONE seriously condoning his business practices. Please, slow down and reread the thread. There is NO REASON to get quite so nasty. This forum is supposed to be educational and FUN. It is not for personal attacks. If you really must disagree, try to put your point in a little playful sarcasm or irony. That's all I tried to do, if you read what I said more carefully.

Thanks guys, I enjoyed THIS post!

Paracelsus

Guess I crossed the line too. Sorry Spark.
I guess maybe Jake WAS RIGHT and I am a little insane, but then, who is NOT?

[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 20 December 1999).]
 
Hi Shawn, I felt that I should say something about what's this situation you've been discussing. First, I think that it's commendable for you to question what you did selling those knives to your friends & co-workers. Was it the right thing to do? You are the one that has to decide this. If you honestly think that you did not mislead anyone about these knives, Probably not. But if I were you, I would'nt do it again because it's the possibility of one of those knives failing & someone getting hurt is true. Second, please forgive some of the guys on this Forum. From what I have seen, they don't like cheap imitations of good knives & have a problem with people who sell them. Personally, I don't carry P.O.S's myself, but some people WON'T pay the money necessary to buy a decent knife. Please don't leave the Forum or feel like you're not welcome, because I believe that any one who likes knives should be able to enjoy & participate here.
Doug.
 
Paracelsus, Just so you you know, I wasn't implying you were insane.I was just sorta quoting what my wife looked up on the name in history....trying to get a little humor into the thread, sorry if you took it any other way.

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Jake Evans
 
I think most of us will admit to starting at the low end of whatever sort of games and toys we have gotten into over time, I know I have. I started off with a total junker knife when I was in elementry school, and thought it was the tops! I'm sure the people you sold those knifes to feel just the same. If they use them a lot and hammer them, that is the education neccessary to rationalize spending x amount of money for something better. If they dont use them, they will never fall apart, and they will always be happy with them. Either way, they get their moneys worth. Burn in hell? Hey man, a freaking hamburger costs five bucks these days, and I seriously doubt that they could have saved any money at a standard retail outlet. It is quite normal in retail to sell something for twice what you paid for it, the seller takes a risk, and must earn a reward. Only buyers with cultivated tastes, or those who use their gear so hard that only the very best will do, buy the kind of stuff that we like. I don't think many of my friends can appreciate the fact that my Microtech mini-socom is a moderately priced knife at the $170 I paid for it. It cost far less than some other knifes I desire, but most people would think that is totally wack. Everbody has to start somewhere, and maybe you put somebody else on the road to the high-end!

P.S. I ride a five thousand dollar bicycle!
 
Paracelsus -

I did the best I could to express how I felt without resorting to being nasty. Now you guys are going and attacking other folks as well.
Click to expand...

Where am I being nasty? Direct? Sure. Nasty? I hardly think so.

It's the BUYERS responsibility to make a Sound Purchase, don't you ALL agree?
Click to expand...

Sure, but that doesn't absolve the seller from some responsibility too. Is the retired widow the one responsible when the dishonest air conditioning repairman cons her into buying a $3000 system when all she needed was a $30 thermostat?

It's up to Shawn (who posted here to begin with) and his buyers to figure this stuff out for themselves.
Click to expand...

Sure it is, however Shawn was the one who asked for opinions. I gave him mine. And as for whether or not the buyers knew they were getting POS's, does anyone here seriously think that they were represented that way? "Hey Freddie, that $2 ... uhhh... $30 knife is a real POS. Wanna buy it?"
wink.gif


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Kelly

SenatorsPlace.com
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice


 
I have a great deal of respect for the people that I work with.

I would never recommend (or sell) a knife that I felt was unsafe or a bad deal, just as I would never try to convince someone that they needed a tool beyond their means or desires to accomplish their goals. I would consider this a great disservice to people whom I depend on every day. And in my business, it would be a dangerous proposition to use an inferior product, as we depend on our tools for our livelihoods and for safety in the workplace. I have too much respect for them, and for myself, to do anything to threaten that.

I need to like and respect the man that I see in the mirror. At the end of the day, that is what counts.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA


 
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