i know you've all seen the"shop at home knives.....

Let me put it another way; I Love Knives. This Holiday season, I have given a number of low cost but high quality knives (SAK’s, a couple of Utility Fangs, and a few Spydercos) to co-workers and friends, knowing that they can trust and depend on them.

I also gave my brothers not so low cost but extremely high quality knives for their birthdays this year. Why? Because I Love Knives, and I Love My Brothers.

I know that my younger brother might never really appreciate the William Henry he now has, but I do know that he does appreciate that I only want the best for him, and that this gift is a reflection of both myself and the love I have for him.

My older brother works with tools, and I know that he will grow to appreciate the simplicity and quality of the Sebenza I gave him. For his purposes, I simply wanted the best available tool for the job. Why? Because I love and respect him, and his safety and well being are as important to me as my own. He will know this every time he uses the tool.

Whatever you decide to sell, or give, reflects on you. Most of these people would have been happy with an unreliable knock off. That isn’t what matters to me. I need to be happy with what they receive as well. Maybe that is why I never entered the retail market. Too much self respect.


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James Segura
San Francisco, CA


 
Shawn, one of these days, one of your co-workers could be your boss. Think about it.
 
Thank God for free enterprise...
However, I don't feel you were completely honest with your co-workers. Now, if you had picked up a good deal on, say, 40-50 Gerber EZOut's for, say, $10.00 a piece and moved them to your co-workers for, say, $20.00- you would feel even better. Then you would have given them an even better deal for a *decent* knife that wasn't a POS, and still made a profit.

Did you do wrong? Only you can answer that.

How are you going to feel when 2 weeks from now, one co-worker's knife breaks and wants a refund, or another is in the local ER because the lock on that POS failed and he is short a finger?

*Don't* leave the forums- we need more knife people. *DO* learn from the vast wealth of information that is to be had here. As my Grandfather loves to say, "If you don't learn something new, or at least make a mistake, it has been a wasted day."
Live and learn.
-Christian
(Who has given a Gerber EZOut to a co-worker and felt good about it.)

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*************************
"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."
-Derek Bok
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[This message has been edited by Christian (edited 20 December 1999).]
 
Kelt,
My reply was, "Let me see if I can explain the difference as I see it."

I never suggested you should see it the same way. You don't, that's fine, can we both have the right to see it differently?

Senator,
"Maybe we should support each other a little more. What do you think?"

I guess you don't think so either.


 
Phil - I stated that I thought what he did was unethical and a disservice to the knife industry. Please tell me why you think I should support that? Would you have me ignore my moral standards just because he's a fellow forumite? Puh-leaze. Does that mean I want him to leave the forums? No. I never stated anything like that.

I'm not sure what everyone's in such a snit about. The guy ASKED for opinions. People GAVE them. Some people supported his methods, others - including myself - didn't and stated so. Remember when Snickersnee asked for forumites opinions of him? He took quite a bit of heat, but he took it all like a man. That's my point - If you can't stand the heat, stay out of... errrr, don't ask the question.

------------------
Kelly

SenatorsPlace.com
AKTI Member #A000289

Deo Vindice




[This message has been edited by Senator (edited 20 December 1999).]
 
Kelly,
You're right you shouldn't, especially when you feel as strongly as you do about what Shawn has done and what I have said. Hey, you never suggested he be exiled from the Forums, or burn in H--L, right? That's not the heat I'm looking for either.
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Hey Guys,

This has been a very interesting discussion to watch unfold. As a new member I am impressed with the strong personalities in the group. Overall, I have found this to be a positive and healthy exchange of opinions and convictions.

Shawn, there is definitely a market for low-dollar knives. I know many people who would never understand paying $20-30 for a knife. They "want a Cadillac for a quarter," as an old man I used to know would have said. With a few of these folks, when the knife or whatever breaks they accept it and go get another. Many of these same folks blame the brand and the seller. You have tapped into what can be a very lucrative market. As long as you are not misrepresenting your products, you are not doing anything wrong. People who are content with low-dollar or POS knives are going to buy them, you are not the only guy with a supply.

When I posted yesterday I asked if you would be willing to carry and use what you sell, I think you would enjoy selling knives that you trust. Several guys have mentioned the good feeling they get from selling or giving quality. You can find decent quality, low-dollar knives that you would be proud to use, sell, or give.

About this leaving the forum stuff, Shawn this discussion has been conducted in friendship. Some of your online friends have agreed with your position. Some have not. When you have true friendship, there are disagreements, sometimes very fierce and painful disagreements. A friend is not any good to you if they never disagree with you.
Your comment about "leaving the forum" is just a natural reaction to a painful disagreement. Just settle down and relax, leaving the forum would be a stupid and unfriendly thing to do!




------------------
Travis Autry
He never met a (quality) knife he didn't like!
 
Hey Bud! Who are you calling, "Stupid and unfriendly?"...Only kidding, Travis welcome to the Forums.

Shawn, don't leave, you had to know you were going to catch some heat with your post, but I think this storm has passed.
 
Hey look! The barometer is rising! I hope the storm Is over. And I hope Shawn decides to stay here and learn with the rest of us.

I certainly learned a lot from this thread in the last 24 hours. For a while, I thought it was going to detonate and Explode in a flaming conflagration with high emotion and brain matter strewn about everywhere. But it seems that everything worked out just fine (so far). I would like to ask anyone else posting in this thread to try to be civil and rational, even if you feel very strongly about Shawn's activities. I do think Shawn was courageous to even post his question here.

For about thirty minutes late last night, I was anything but calm and rational. With a little help from my friends (some old, some new), I learned something new about myself. Discussing things in a electronic forum like this without intonation, inflection, and body language is quite challenging. I thank everyone here for helping me learn to communicate in this medium a little better.
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Paracelsus (a complete idiot, really)
 
Whew! I think the steam has settled over the lattes'.
Shawn--From my point of view there is no need to consider withdrawing from the forum.

What many miss is that one guy's POS is another's treasure. Did you misrepresent your product? Probably not overtly. Were there any omissions of clarifications--maybe. (I dunno I wasn't there). What I do know is it takes a strong constitution to "dip your pen in the company ink". Someone out there brought up the point about one of your fellow employees wanting a "refund" or unhappy about the merchandise. You work with these people and their unhappiness could come back to bite ya.

Dilemmas always come up when you start comparing your morals with capitalism. Kind of like stjames said--you gotta look yourself in the mirror every morning. I'm not saying you did anything wrong--(I just wouldn't have sold those at work). Probably the biggest issue is full disclosure vs. buyer beware.

Let us know how your products hold up!

Happy Holidays to all
 
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