I met with two masters tonight...

I've tried, I mean really tried to get a good thrust on w/ a khuk and could never make it happen. But I have buried it half way in to many objects with no prob. I'm buying into DIJ's idea.

I really want a Movie model. The fighting and utility abilities must be awsome. I just keep finding ways to spend all of this non-existant money that I have.

- D
 
I read with great interest , your search to learn more about the uses and techniques of kukri fighting. i have experienced this week something that i feel i should share with you. i came across a thread on toratoratora.co.uk , the sensei Simon Hengle has had some of the Royal Air Force down to the dojo to learn and use his weapons. they were blown away by his knowledge and skills , as well as the awesome selection on blades he has. The RAF are wanting to come back and learn more . To complimnet this fact there was a thread from a guy who is in contact with a Armourer and Weapons specialist with the British Royal Marines. He too is visiting the dojo next weekend to learn and take the blades on trial. i have been lucky enough to have trained in Kukri with Sensei Hengle and recommend anyone whos anyone who wants to learn ,and own a superb kukri to contact him :D :D
 
Gurkha said:
I read with great interest , your search to learn more about the uses and techniques of kukri fighting. i have experienced this week something that i feel i should share with you. i came across a thread on toratoratora.co.uk , the sensei Simon Hengle has had some of the Royal Air Force down to the dojo to learn and use his weapons. they were blown away by his knowledge and skills , as well as the awesome selection on blades he has. The RAF are wanting to come back and learn more . To complimnet this fact there was a thread from a guy who is in contact with a Armourer and Weapons specialist with the British Royal Marines. He too is visiting the dojo next weekend to learn and take the blades on trial. i have been lucky enough to have trained in Kukri with Sensei Hengle and recommend anyone whos anyone who wants to learn ,and own a superb kukri to contact him :D :D
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Welcome to the forum, Gurkha.

I believe sensei Hengle is the one who posted in this thread at # 15.

Many of us in the US will probably find it difficult to find opportunities to study in the UK. However, I for one will be very interested in insights on the use of the khukuri that either you or Sensei Hengle might care to share with us on the forum. I have heard good things about Sensei Hengle's skill before, and I suspect he has many good insights to share.

I do have to admit I am a little skeptical of "genuine khukuri fighting" as mentioned in post 15. The khukuri is a deadly weapon. I suppose scholars and martial artists can debate which techniques are "genuine," and they may even determine between themselves who wins the debate and knows the real techniques. But I suspect that whatever the real techniques are determined to be, many people through history will have been killed with non-genuine or incorrect techniques, as well as many trees chopped incorrectly, many potatoes dug incorrectly, etc., etc..
 
HW...good post....martial arts has more politics than Washington
Every martial art style has this very same issue who is the original who is correct, tradition vs modern etc... But there are some artist that have gotten past all that and found all that matters is who walks away and who can't.

If the Khukuri is real and its moving then its most likely a real art.
 
It is interesting, dont you think, that although "genuine" fighting arts from Nepal, this school would have a name and titles in Japanese?
 
DannyinJapan said:
It is interesting, dont you think, that although "genuine" fighting arts from Nepal, this school would have a name and titles in Japanese?
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They do the same thing in New Orleans Danny...

And I agree with you...

.
 
Japanese names ranks etc...

all "Genuine "

The craze today in martial arts is MMA many of them are often arrogant but at least they will be the first to tell you where they get their arts from.
 
Hello Chaps,

I think I know who Gurkha is ;)

I just want to clarrify one thing, the Nepalese I teach call me Guru even the ones in the UK, but at the Dojo I'm called Sensei, as my highest Grade is in kickboxing, which has its origins in Karate, and was founded by the great Karate Ka Joe Lewis in 1970, as a more realistic fighting sport to point stop Karate, remember that Kickboxing was originally known as Full Contact Karate.

For a start there are no genuine Nepalese Martial Art systems, however the Kukri is the National weapon of Nepal (I had my first one when I was Nine, 38 years ago!!!).
My kukri technique is very much based on what I shown by teachers at boarding school, some of whom where Gurkha Officers in WWII, serving in Burma Etc. I have also had the pleasure to discuss and learn of genuine Gurkhas.
My study in Martial Arts took several paths, one of the benifits was it did show me a way to systamise kukri into a constructed learning format, which is what I have done :)

small_jeet.jpg


"I thoroughly recommend Simon's kukri. Simons knowledge about the Gurkhas is second to none and his expertise and techniques in the combat use of the kukri are amongst the best I have ever seen."

Jeet Bahadur Sahi, Staff Sergeant - Gurkhas

11.jpg


"Presented to Simon Hengle by Shree Dhar Bhujel, the close quarter combat instructor of the Royal Nepalese Gorkha Commandos for his skills with a khukuri and hand to hand combat. September 2001."

I hope that has clarrified one or two points, please feel free to ask away about kukri techniques.

Cheers Simon
 
Well what is Muy Thai?
Isnt that kickboxing?

Honestly, I have no problem with people creating their own martial arts.
ITs a good creative thing.

carry on!
 
In every martial art style there is people have created hundreds if not thousands of "their" version...its the way martial arts is and the argument follows what is genuine what is not, who is better etc.....but that’s human nature.


<<there are no genuine Nepalese Martial Art systems>>

I agree and disagree...

There is no national accepted system of martial arts that is Nepalese....but there are many family systems passed father to son or within small communities.
 
Hello Danny,

A brief istory of Muay Thai for you, from our syllabus;

Thai Boxing;
In 1560 (as legend would have it), King Naresuen of Siam (modern Thailand) was captured by the Burmese and given the chance for freedom if he could beat the top Burmese Martial Artists. King Naresuen managed to defeat the Burmese fighters, gaining freedom for himself and his country. (The two countries still compete against each other in bare-knuckle fights on the border). From that day Muay Thai (pronounced Moyay Tie) or Thai Boxing as it is more commonly known, became the national sport of Siam. Thai Boxing is often referred to as the Science of 8 limbs.
In the military version, the unarmed system was backed up by their weapons system of Krabi Krabong, (Sword and Staff fighting). Which probably had its origins from the Sino-Indian battlefields; it was further developed by the Japanese Samurai Warlord Yamada Nagamasa (Nizaemon), in the 17th century when he and 800 Ronin (wave men, master less Samurai) helped put down a rebellion. It became part of the College of Physical Education programme in 1936.
However Thai Boxing originates much further back than the 1560 date although it is impossible to authentically verify its original history beyond that point. This is due to the Burmese invasion in 1796 when the invaders destroyed the Siamese capital of Ayutthaya and virtually all-historical records were lost in the sacking of the city.
What we do know is that the Thai people originate from the Yunnan province of China, which back in the 13th century was a separate state but part of the Sung Empire. We also know that the Mongols invaded that area in the 13th century driving the people down to the Mekong and Selween valleys, where they merged with the Mon and Khmer of the Menam valley. Eventually forming the country of Siam and with that their Martial Art systems.

Cheers Simon

Azis, in Nepal there is no father to son hand me down Martial tradition, I have taught out there on several occasions and know the people and their ways pretty well. The high cast may have practised Indian sword techniques in the past, but that is long gone. These days its as in mine and your country, we practise Japanese, Chinese and eclectic systems etc.
 
Thank you for your insight Simon...I was hoping that you would understand.

The information on styles, history and use of the khukuri is fascinating and appreciated. Any more that you may have and are willing to share will only broaden our knowledge.

I have no style...I like ball peen hammers. ;)

.
 
Sirupate said:
... please feel free to ask away about kukri techniques.
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Simon,

You seem to have earned high respect from some of the Gurkhas. That speaks for itself.

I read on your website that you found reference in an old book to a rising cut used in the past but out of favor today, and that you have reconstructed that cut and use it. Can you go into a little detail about that cut and how it is performed?

Also, you mention that you have put together some type of structured curriculum. Can you give a broad overview of how you approach the subject and the structure of your khukuri curriculum?

Thanks for your willingness to share.
 
Hello Nasty,

Thanks :)
What I have found in Nepal is that a lot of the city people (general rule) don't have any real kukri skills, but up in the mountains etc they tend to use them more frequentley, and have good (I guess one would call it bushcraft these days) skills :)
Even if you go a little outside of Kathmandu in the hills surrounding the city you will find they use the kukri more, although the sickle is probably the most used blade. Infact on the last visit (this year) we came across a Goorkha army kukri from WWI being used in the fields still, with an aadha paro handle.
I'm not really sure where to start on kukri, so I guess the best thing to do is to ask me a question about kukri technique that interests you, and I will do my best to answer.

Cheers Simon
 
Hello Howard,

Cross posts :D

OK, what I found is they had lost the art of the rising cut in there combat techniques, which is exactly the same as gyaku kesa/kirage in Kenjutsu, and concentrated on downward cuts and and horizontal cuts. For example Shree Dhar demonstrated a pattern they used for training, that was based around a Taekwondo form and lacked fluidity, and they did not know the application of the rising cut, as they did not practise it.
I decided to start the form with the very basic techniques, so they study the ten basic cuts, and then the ten basic corrisponding blocks, for which they use real kukri. Once they have got the hang of that they then do the two together in partner forms, using a shoto, they also have to do very basic cutting tests at this level.

Cheers Simon
 
Sirupate said:
Hello Howard,

Cross posts :D

OK, what I found is they had lost the art of the rising cut in there combat techniques, which is exactly the same as gyaku kesa/kirage in Kenjutsu, and concentrated on downward cuts and and horizontal cuts. For example Shree Dhar demonstrated a pattern they used for training, that was based around a Taekwondo form and lacked fluidity, and they did not know the application of the rising cut, as they did not practise it.
I decided to start the form with the very basic techniques, so they study the ten basic cuts, and then the ten basic corrisponding blocks, for which they use real kukri. Once they have got the hang of that they then do the two together in partner forms, using a shoto, they also have to do very basic cutting tests at this level.

Cheers Simon
Click to expand...
Simon,

Your curriculum sounds very sensible. A lot of knife schools use similar approaches. Different schools have varying numbers of basic cuts, but the approach of dividing the infinite number of angles in the circle down to 10 or so to practice and vary from is a time proven one. It also helps with communication in the dojo, for example to refer to a #1.

One such system using 9 numbers is

1,2 - 45 degree downward cuts
3,4 - 45 degree upward cuts
5,6 - horizontal cuts
7,8 - vertical cuts upwards and downwards
9 - thrust

This can be used to conceptualize the whole circle. In this case you just divide into 8 sections, each with a 45 degree arc. I'm not sure a few more or less really makes a lot of difference. How does your numbering system work?

I'm not familiar with the kenjutsu terminology, although I did study a little with the katana a few decades ago with my Aikido sensei. I am imagining the rising cut you describe as being performed with the standard chopping grip? Is this correct?

I have played with rising cuts from 3 different grips.

1 - Regular forward grip edge out as used for chopping.
2 - Forward grip edge in. With the khukuri held this way the sharp edge points back towards you. This is pretty close range.
3 - Reverse grip edge out. Intermediate range.
(4 - Reverse grip edge in is also possible, but very limited in application.)

Do you have any comments as to these variations. I think grip #1 is by far the most useful but the others do have their places. Some people prefer not changing grips at all and staying with #1.
 
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