I need a hard-use knife

[KBobAries]

I'll use it mostly for camping but I would also like to take an adventure course or two. I've been doing a lot of looking and the choices are almost mind-numbing.

I'm guessing something with a blade in the 5 to 8 inch range would work best but I've never purchased anything that large. I want a knife that can handle batoning and pounding on the butt. Camping has been in maintained campgrounds but we're starting to go more primitive so digging a small firepit or hole for human waste will be needed at some point.

I'm less concerned about sharpening/edge retention and more with a steel that can take some rough handling. I'm preferential toward drop points but that's not carved in stone. Recurve blades are fine but no sawbacks. Serrations? Hmmm...disinclined due to my experience with a couple partially serrated Benchmade folders. Nice knives but I bought them naively thinking the combination blade would be more utilitarian. Instead it seems like too much is being crammed into too little area. Do larger blades permit one to fully exploit the advantages of each?

The following are what I've come up with on my "short" list. I realize I'm all over the board with regard to the types of steels used. Mostly arid environment so rust isn't a big issue.

Fallkniven: A1, A2, S1 and a couple from the Northern Lights series. The NLs are beautiful but I don't think the aluminum butts will take much abuse.

Chris Reeve: Green Beret, Neil Roberts, Pacific. My Sebenza is an awesome knife and I'm assuming his larger knives will be just as good.

Rat: RC-5, RC-6. I like what I read about 1095 steel.

Ontario: RAT-7. Also 1095.

Busse: BOSS HG55

Bark River: Gameskeeper II

Scrapyard: SOD, Dumpster Mutt DC or LE, Yard Hook, Yard Guard, Scrapper. I read good things but the tangs aren't full length.

Feel free to correct any delusions I might have or suggest other things I should add to my requirements.

Thanks all,

Dan

 

[Jaxx]

Since I see that you are considering a Busse on your list, I'll jump in with some Busse suggestions.

For what you suggest, the HG55 would not be my first choice as it falls into more of a fighter style role. I'm sure that it would do just fine, but with the drop point factor in mind, I'd suggest an ASH-1 either a CG if you like 'em thick and bomb proof, or the Skinny ASH, which is much lighter but still very tough.

Skinny ASH, 3rd down...

You also can't go wrong with a SARsquatch, as this is made for the type of duty you seem to want it for. I would recommend removing the very thin decarb layer that only the Comp grades have on them as this does oxidize fairly easily, but the INFI underneath is very rust resistant for a carbon steel. This decarb layer is not hard to remove, and I actually used just Mother's metal polish repeatedly until I was satisfied that I got most or all off. As I said, it is a very thin layer over the true INFI knife steel. The 'Squatch has a flatter butt than most other Busse's which is very suitable for pounding. there are coated ones out there too.

Comp grade SARaquatch...

The SAR4 is a new model that also has a butt designed for batonning like the 'squatch, however, the blade is just under 5" (4 7/8"). Although it isn't a drop point, it is still a very handy knife for the woods.

SAR4

The SFNO is another popular choice for the woods. it's a tough all purpose type of knife that is handy in many environments. Although it's butt isn't flat, it can still take batonning and it is a decent lightweight chopper that takes batonning to the spine very well. The SFNO can be found in many variations... Coated, satin, beadblasted, sabre ground full-height ground, hand shaped handles or machine shaped... And all serve very well under hard use.

SFNO LE (sabre ground, satin finished, with hand shaped tigerhide micarta)...

CG SFNO (full-height ground, satin finished with magnum machined micarta handles), top one...

The NMSFNO is a beefier sized version of the SFNO with an 8 inch blade, convex grind to a V-edge (CG version) or convexed zero edge (LE version). Great for chopping!

Wow... I have no pix of one on hand. Guess I need to photo mine! Basically it is one inch longer than the regular sized SFNO above and has the same profile, with the Nuclear Meltdown treatment (rounded corners, ball bearing finish as seen on the SAR4, also above). Its length is comparable to the Fusion Steel Heart, which is the knife right above the Skinny ASH in the first pic.)

With the exception of the SAR4, all these are only available on the FS Exchange (secondary market), but being recent releases, you stand a good chance of finding one at or near original prices. The SAR4 will come out in at least one more version here: www.bussecompanystore.com sometime this week.

I personally recommend Busse as they are really tough knives with a great warranty that never expires (so long as the company is in business, should be a loooong time!) and the warranty transfers with the knife from owner to owner. check www.bussecombat.com for more details on their warranty.

However, even though I love Busse knives, there are many great knives out there, and by many great companies and individuals... So get ready for lots of suggestions. I do recommend that you try to handle as many as you are able, to determine what fits you best. What works for me may not work for you and many of the knifemakers on your list do quality work.

Good Hunting! :thumbup:

 

[amper124]

Hi Dan

Some of the thoughts.

Fallkniven: A1, A2, S1 and a couple from the Northern Lights series. The NLs are beautiful but I don't think the aluminum butts will take much abuse.

NL? Would rather choose the models with kraton (or whatever it is) handle and extended tang. Very nice knives with decent steel. Ideal for outdoor.

Chris Reeve: Green Beret, Neil Roberts, Pacific. My Sebenza is an awesome knife and I'm assuming his larger knives will be just as good.

Although those are good knives, I would rather not choose them. S30V in bushes? Nahhh... You will lose you nerve while trying to resharpen it in field conditions (yeah, even those with CPM need to been resharpened from time to time <joke>).

Rat: RC-5, RC-6. I like what I read about 1095 steel.
Ontario: RAT-7. Also 1095.

Comparable. IMHO substance of the outdoor knife. Quite cheap for quite good quality. Steel is prefect for the field usage.

Busse: BOSS HG55

Tend to regard them cool, but preety overpriced while compared to the cutting (!) performance. In fact I have never handled one

Bark River: Gameskeeper II

Convex grind and A2 (currently it's sandvik AFAIK) might be very good choice - strong blade with good cutting performance.

Scrapyard: SOD, Dumpster Mutt DC or LE, Yard Hook, Yard Guard, Scrapper. I read good things but the tangs aren't full length.

Used to have SY scrapper 6. It's a prybar not a knife Full flat grind with thickness about of rail will give you a good combination of cutting power and strenght, yet SR77 is preety easy to maintain. Although the handle has hidden tang is almost indestructable. Respirence C is very very tough. It's so hard that it will not absorb any shock from impact, and that will give your wrist a lot of pain. One more thing - you will have to thin down the edge, bacause the standard one is preety thick and will not cut as good as the competitors.

Generally speaking
If I were you, I'd rather choose something simple, with rather low price range. If you will lose it or break, it will not be so painful as destroying the blade for 350$ +
RAT, Ontario, BRKT would be my choice.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

amper124 just saved me a lot of writing. The only idea I'd throw in would be that the Gameskeeper itself, not just the Gameskeeper II, would also do fine for what you want.

If you start with Ontario or RAT Cutlery, or Bark River, you won't have to spend any more. They will do very well. Depending on what else you're carrying, I suggest going for a lighter knife rather than a more overbuilt one. Metal gets heavy on a long hike.

 

[Jason B.]

Bark river and RAT are some good choices and don't forget we have some real good knife makers here on the forum that could make you anything you want for the same price or less. I had the same question not too long ago, I went the custom route and am very happy.

 

[Elen]

I'm less concerned about sharpening/edge retention and more with a steel that can take some rough handling. I'm preferential toward drop points but that's not carved in stone. Recurve blades are fine but no sawbacks. Serrations? Hmmm...disinclined due to my experience with a couple partially serrated Benchmade folders. Nice knives but I bought them naively thinking the combination blade would be more utilitarian. Instead it seems like too much is being crammed into too little area. Do larger blades permit one to fully exploit the advantages of each?

The following are what I've come up with on my "short" list. I realize I'm all over the board with regard to the types of steels used. Mostly arid environment so rust isn't a big issue.

Fallkniven: A1, A2, S1 and a couple from the Northern Lights series. The NLs are beautiful but I don't think the aluminum butts will take much abuse.

Chris Reeve: Green Beret, Neil Roberts, Pacific. My Sebenza is an awesome knife and I'm assuming his larger knives will be just as good.

Rat: RC-5, RC-6. I like what I read about 1095 steel.

Ontario: RAT-7. Also 1095.

Busse: BOSS HG55

Bark River: Gameskeeper II

Scrapyard: SOD, Dumpster Mutt DC or LE, Yard Hook, Yard Guard, Scrapper. I read good things but the tangs aren't full length.

Feel free to correct any delusions I might have or suggest other things I should add to my requirements.

First I'd say that for camping/outdoors use, I see absolutely no point to a combo edge (partly serrated) knife. A good plain edge knife can do any job required of a knife, and if you for some reason require serrations, then I feel it's best to have a fully serrated knife, perhaps one of the fully serrated folders made by such makers as Spyderco.

Then some comments on those knives you listed.

- Fällkniven: NL line is pretty expensive and pretty for a knife meant to be used rough, and the NLs aren't any better in actual use than the cheaper thermorun/kraton handled ones like the A1 and A2. In your case, I wouldn't consider Fällkniven, because even though they make good knives, the VG10 steel they use is quite brittle, and you said you're going to be digging with the knife. If you use a VG10 knife to dig, and there is any moderately hard impact with rocks, the edge is going to chip like there's no tomorrow. So, Fällkniven is out, unless the ground you're digging in is really soft and empty of rocks and gravel, or if you're willing to forget digging with a knife and will make a digging stick instead.

- Chris Reeve: again, rather "pretty" and expensive for a knife meant to be used rough, and considering the price, the performance isn't stellar. That is to say, the steel used isn't enormously tough, the designs aren't superbly ergonomic, and besides looking pretty, they're really not superior in use to similarly priced knives or even some cheaper ones. They will work, but besides great fit and finish, there's not that much going for them.

- RAT: good stuff, and reasonably priced. They really know how to make the most out of that classic tried and true 1095 carbon steel. :thumbup: Oh, and great warranty.

- Ontario: no reason to go with the Ontario RATs when you could go for the real RATs. But you might consider the Ontario Ranger Knives line. Those are some seriously heavily built knives out of 5160 steel.

- Busse: well, to be honest, Busses are expensive and "pretty" to a lot of folks, and some might be disinclined to beat on a knife that expensive. They can also be a little tricky to acquire, due to the way they produce their knives (visit the Busse subforum here at Bladeforums for more info, if interested). But if the price is acceptable to you, then Busses are actually a great choice. The thing that makes Busses different from other expensive & pretty knives on this list such as the Chris Reeves and Fällkniven Northern Lights lineup is that the Busses are actually enormously tough even compared to similarly priced and more expensive knives. The Busse warranty is also great: if you break it, for example while prying open doors, the warranty covers it, unless you meant to destroy the knife intentionally - and by "intentionally" I mean things like shooting at the knife with an RPG or cutting it with a blowtorch . Busses will hold an edge well, are easy to sharpen, and they will not easily chip even in abusive use. However, they tend to come with very thick edges and they won't outcut less tough knives, unless you thin the edges out a lot, and sometimes thin the whole grind (which in turn may affect the warranty). Even so, for hard, rough use, I find Busse to be an excellent choice, and personally I would go with Busse. The HG55 is not one I'd choose, because it's more of a fighter like Jaxx said. The NMSFNO would be a great choice, and it shouldn't be hard to find one from the secondary market.

- Scrapyard: basically the cheaper lineup of Busse. Very tough, and even though they're technically not full tang, they will take a lot more punishment than other full tang knives of similar size and price. Being much cheaper than Busses, these would be a good choice for a rough use blade.

Like others have suggested, going with something cheap might be a good idea depending on how you like to do things. Ka-Bar makes stuff like the Heavy Bowies that are relatively inexpensive and pretty tough, and there are lots of other makers that make large-ish but inexpensive knives. If you want something a little higher quality, then I'd go for RAT Cutlery. If you insist on getting a ridiculously, absurdly tough knife, then it's Busse or Scrapyard for you.

 

[J.Mattson]

Wow jaxx you put a lot of work into that post,

 

[Dag-nabit]

Sure, narrow it down to a list of highly respectable knives, just to make it EASY for us.

From experience, I can only speak to the Fallkniven. They are great knives that will do what you need them to as a camping/survival knife. You won't be disappointed by them.

You are correct to stay with A1 A2 or S1 rather than the NL series for your intended use.

Based on what I have read / heard of the other choices, I'm sure none of them will disappoint either.

Kevin

 

[Steven Andrews]

Some great knife recommendations there. Out of the manufacturers listed, I have only experienced Fallkniven. The A1 or A2 would make a great choice.
The NL line are beautiful knives, but I have returned an Odin to Fallkniven today to get the handle tightend up after it came loose. Stick to the Thermorun handled knives.

KBobAries, you mentioned digging with the knife. I find the thought of digging with a knife abhorent!
I would use a sharpened branch/stake to break up the ground and excavate it with and a small trowel, rather than using my knife.
http://www.rei.com/product/407146

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

RAT Cutlery RC-6. :thumbup:

 

[moonwilson]

You've listed some good options. For my 2 cents worth- the RATs are great- probably the most knife for the money on the market.

If you're going to go for a Busse- an ASH-1 is probably your best choice- out of what's easily available right now. ASH-1s are super cool, I have three of 'em. A CG ASH-1 is literally unbreakable- it's the perfect thing for stabbing tanks. They're quite heavy, however.

Bark River makes a great knife. My choice in the size range you're looking for is the Bravo-2. It's a wonderful knife. Gorgeous, crazy sharp, and indestructible to boot. The sheath it comes with is lovely.

And a big +1 to the digging stick comments. Digging with a knife is the worst thing you could do with it. The first stab into the ground will kill your edge- instantly.

 

[TheFighter88]

The CPM S30v Chris Reeve knives would not be suited to hard use/abuse. I'd take a look at his A2 offering though - Project Series & other hollow handled knives.

Fallkniven is always a good choice - I have an NL1 & 2, but I recommend just getting an A1 or A2. The NL series looks good and is a bit thicker, but, functionally, the A1 and A2 are better values. Nonetheless, either way you go will serve you well.

The RC-6 is a great option too; especially since their warranty is so great. Personally, I'd rather go with the RC-6 than the RAT-7.

Busse and Scrapyard are also very durable and capable blades. Can't go wrong with them either.


In summary, steer clear of the CPM-S30v Reeve's and (IMO) the RAT-7. All your other listed options are really great blades. You may want to consider Reeve's A2 models or something from Bark River.

Good luck! You're off to a great start already!

 

[LeftytwoGuns]

I have gotten my first large Busse from the exchange, but your talking $300 PLUS for most of those Busse knives, but they are worth it.

For your first large fixed blade, I'd start off in lower price ranges, then work your way up as you discover what you like and dislike. May I suggest a Sog seal knife,(in picture, on right) it's around 90 or 100 bucks, and has been very well tested.

Now if you want an exposed tang for hammering you'd have to get the Seal team elite, the one on the left in the picture.

Also, as suggested, you may want to considder a RAT knife. They seem to be very solid, and have a large following on these forums. You can choose one in your desired blade length.

-steve

 

[T.K.C.]

My vote also is for Busse, unless you want to go custom.

 

[KBobAries]

Jaxx,

Great post with some stunning photos. Thanks for putting such effort into it. I didn&#8217;t realize the Busse warranty was transferable.

...Respirence C is very very tough. It's so hard that it will not absorb any shock from impact, and that will give your wrist a lot of pain...

Amper,

Thanks for the individual analyses and especially the tip above.

Esav,

You mentioned what else I&#8217;ll be carrying. I can choose from 3 Benchmade folders, a Sebenza, an Emerson Commander, and Game Warden fatty.

Knifenut,

A custom would be nice but will have to be a future purchase. I&#8217;ve been looking on the web for over a week and a bit lax in posting my questions. It&#8217;s now 3 weeks before our first trip.


Elen,

My thanks to you also for critiquing my list. Lots of tidbits in there. I didn&#8217;t know VG10 was prone to chipping. You mentioned thinning out one of the knives. I&#8217;m very cautious and not much of an experimenter. Buy a knife, use it and sharpen it.

Steven,

Yeah, digging isn&#8217;t the best thing (mild understatement) and I&#8217;m not going to dig postholes for a fence line. But sometimes one gets caught short and does what&#8217;s needed.

Moon,

Part of the Bark River website refuses to work for me so I chose from what I was able to see. The Bravo must be on one of those other pages.


Fighter,

I&#8217;m glad to hear from someone that has both of the Fallkniven models I&#8217;m considering.

Lefty,

It&#8217;s hard to explain and there is almost no rational basis for it but I&#8217;m trying to stay away from what others might see as &#8220;military survival&#8221; styles. It&#8217;s a very boring story.

Thanks again all. I&#8217;m off to work and will check in this evening.

Dan

 

[WalterDavis]

Just a note, the Bark River website is not very well updated. They run their knives in batches, so availability can be somewhat finicky, the best places to look at available knives would be knivesshipfree or dlttradingcompany. I've had a few Barkies, and they have all been top notch knives.

That said, if you've got the means, I'd go directly to the exchange here and find a Busse Sarsquatch, Skinny Ash or Hell Razor, Swamp Rat Ratweiler or Chopweiler, or a larger Scrap Yard. Any of those would make a great larger blade, able to handle anything you can throw at 'em:thumbup: Take a folding saw, one of these knives, and a sharp pocket knife and I'd say you've got your bases covered.

 

[udtjim]

Becker BK-7 from Kabar if you want tough and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars. Like Me.

 

[jbombelli]

Any Busse, Swamp Rat, or Scrapyard would do well. Regarding the abuse they can take... here are a few pictures from the Scrapyard forum a while back, of somebody abusing their Scrapyard Dogfather:

It sprung back straight as an arrow.

 

[orca8589]

Jaxx - great post! Very informative.

Here's my $0.02:

For cost: I'd choose a RAT, with a 4"-5" blade. (And Jeff's warranty is stellar.) I have an old Camillus Becker BK7, that I bought with the purpose of testing against a few others for a good camp knife. (I looked at Kabar, Buck, Fallkniven, and Ontario.) In the end, Fallkniven was the winner for comfort and fit & finish, but too pricey for me. I settled on the Becker for sentimental reasons - Camillus had just closed down. For me, if I had to replace my Camillus Becker, it would be with a RAT 4.

For durability: if you have the money, buy a Busse. To me, Busse's are disappointing in only one way: if you buy one, you'll probably never "need" to buy another knife of that type (fixed blade camp knife) ever again. Neither will your kids, or grandkids. Busse's will last at least that long.

thx - cpr

 

[Splat]

I second the Kabar Beckers. I would select the BK2. I know a few guys over in the sandbox using these and really, really like them. I'm thinking of picking one up, actually. Another safe bet is Ranger Knives RD6. One helluva deal for a great knife.