I need a sharpening setup and I don't want to go the "guided" route

[False Cast]

Please let me thank you all again.

Here's what I have in mind. Please let me know if this setup has any holes in it or if I've left out something important. I've already got a decent strop. Looks like I can get everything for a shade under $150 which is about what I wanted to pay but if there's something missing, let me know.

- DMT Dia-Sharp 2x6" (fine/course)
- Spyderco ceramic benchstone 2x8" (fine)
- Spyderco ceramic benchstone 2x8" (ultra-fine)

 

[mkjellgren]

Please let me thank you all again.

Here's what I have in mind. Please let me know if this setup has any holes in it or if I've left out something important. I've already got a decent strop. Looks like I can get everything for a shade under $150 which is about what I wanted to pay but if there's something missing, let me know.

- DMT Dia-Sharp 2x6" (fine/course)
- Spyderco ceramic benchstone 2x8" (fine)
- Spyderco ceramic benchstone 2x8" (ultra-fine)

Looks good to me, the only thing would be a medium spyderco benchstone to bridge the gap between fine diamond and fine ceramic but that would definitely be something you could add at a later date if you felt it was necessary. With a little skill (and a considerable amount of practice) the stones you're looking at will be capable of some insanely sharp edges.

 

[False Cast]

Looks good to me, the only thing would be a medium spyderco benchstone to bridge the gap between fine diamond and fine ceramic but that would definitely be something you could add at a later date if you felt it was necessary. With a little skill (and a considerable amount of practice) the stones you're looking at will be capable of some insanely sharp edges.

"Spyderco Fine Benchstone with Box, 2 X 8 -Inch"
"Spyderco Ultra Fine Benchstone with Box, 2 X 8 -Inch"
"DMT D6FC 6-Inch Dia-Sharp Double-Sided Fine/Coarse Bench Stone"

And so wraps up my Amazon order; under $140 shipped, along with a used copy of E.Hemingway's biography (I've always wanted to read it).

Wish me luck and kitchen knives be damned!!!

 

[mkjellgren]

kitchen knives be damned!!!

Inexpensive kitchen knives make for great freehand practice. Just don't expect cheap knives to take the same degree of sharpness as a nicer knife with better steel. Good luck!! I am confident that once you nail down your technique you'll be very pleased with the results.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I, once again, agree with mkjellgren in that a medium ceramic would do very well to bridge the gap between the diamonds and the ceramics. The UF ceramic is the least necessary of the three unless you're looking for a literal razor edge. It's a great stone, though.

 

[arty]

I have a number of different sharpening systems, including ceramic stones, India stones by Norton, Silicaon Carbide, a number of different Japanese Waterstones, including Shaptons, Kings and Nortons. I also have some diamond stones.
I'd recommend the Spyderco ceramic in medium and fine. You don't really need the ultrafine, since the strop will do what the ultrafine does - at least my combination of strops will do it.
If you want a diamond stone, they can be used to reprofile an edge. I don't use them for much else. However, I tend to use a 1" belt sander with a 320 or 400 grit belt if I really need to do much work on an edge.
I have tons of stones, including a full range of Norton and Dan's Arkansas stones. I use the Spyderco ceramics the most on knife blades.

 

[gomipile]

If you want to get into freehand sharpening, get a Norton Crystolon 8"x2" combination stone. It's about $20, and you will never grow out of it. As in, there will always be a use for it in your shop. The Crystolon is silicon carbide, which can easily cut(read: sharpen) any super steel in use today.

All you really need to freehand sharpen any blade at all is a silicon carbide stone and some water. I find a rectangle of foam rubber nonskid from the dollar store (they sell it as drawer/shelf liner) placed under the stone helps keep it from sliding around on the bench.

So, a $1 spray bottle for water, a $1 roll of nonskid, and a $20 SiC bench stone. I wish I'd known about this combination of gear 10 years ago.

 

[HeavyHanded]

^ This. I use mineral oil on mine, but combined with someblack and white (coarse and fine) compound (I got mine at Sears) and some newspaper, its really all you need. I love my waterstones, but for convenience and portability the combo Crystalon stone is very hard to beat.


Illustrate my point, three pics at 640x - the first shows the edge straight off the SIC stone stropped with some plain newspaper, I've done this one a bunch of times and that's pretty much how it looks on every knife I've done - fairly irregular but with a clean apex. This edge can shave arm hair and just clip facial stubble.

The second shows the effects of about 40 light passes on white compound - two layers of newspaper wrapped around the fine side of the stone. Feels very smooth and uniform when stropping, modest amount of swarf left on the paper.
Modest improvement in fine cutting - facial stubble clipped with noticeably less pull and quietly crosscuts newspaper. Last pic shows one layer of paper wrapped around the coarse side of the stone and dosed with white compound - I apply a touch more pressure, just enough to feel the stone texture a little under the paper - maybe 15 passes/side. What a difference! The edge looks like I honed it on my Spyderco fine - whittled a hair in two places (had to do it twice cause I couldn't believe my eyes). I've been experimenting with compound on newspaper for a while now, it works well and very simple. Plus, maintenance couldn't be easier - just toss it in the recycling bin when it loads up. I am amazed at how much I used to overthink this. As an even easier method you can just (carefully) mop up with some newspaper the swarf, stone debris and oil that builds up on your stone from sharpening, and use that for your "polishing compound". Might not get you to whittling a hair, but you can get a very nice EDU edge that will casually shave arm hair and maybe even tree-top some leg hairs.

 

[False Cast]

Thanks fellas. Tons of great info here. I was able to amend my order to the following:

"Spyderco Fine Benchstone with Box, 2 X 8 -Inch"
"Spyderco Medium Benchstone with Box, 2 X 8 -Inch"
"DMT D6FC 6-Inch Dia-Sharp Double-Sided Fine/Coarse Bench Stone"

Along with my double sided strop & my two compounds, I think I'll be all set. Once they arrive I will start my practice on our kitchen knives.

Another question: should I be using any lubricant on any of the stones that I am purchasing? (listed above)

 

[mkjellgren]

Another question: should I be using any lubricant on any of the stones that I am purchasing? (listed above)

Nope, no lube needed with diamonds or ceramics. Some people like to use a little soapy water on the diamond stones but it's really not necessary. Just make sure you clean your ceramics when they load up with steel. A little powdered abrasive (I like "Bar Keepers Friend") and a wet rag and they'll clean up in seconds.

 

[RCS]

Great discussion. I've been following with interest. My first knife, just purchased, is the Chris Reeve Nyala and I want to learn how to sharpen it. Of course I'll practice with the kitchen knives first.

My choice is either one of the following two packages - which would you recommend.

Package One - $186.01 via Amazon
1- DMT Diasharp 6 inch fine/course stone
1- DMT Diasharp 6 inch extra fine stone
1- Spyderco 2x8 inch ultrafine
1- Knivesplus Strop

Package Two - $106.76
1- Lansky Diamond Deluxe sharpening kit
1- Lansky Ultra fine hone
1- Lanksy Super Sapphire Polishing hone
1- KnifesPlus strop

 

[Ed Fowler]

I still have my grandfathers old brown Norton India stone. Has been in constant use since the1940's and still works. I use simple green to keep it clean and working well. The most important part is that you practice and learn to put the edge you want on your blades. Pick up some junk knives at a second hand store and go to work. Try them and sharpen again and again.

Remember to have fun with it, stones give you the freedom to develop the edge you want on your blades. My grandmother sharpened her kitchen knives on a stone in the steps of her back porch. The were great.

You want to test your edges for cut, immediate feedback is most essential to learn how to sharpen a knife.

 

[shudaizi]

HH: Great pics and fascinating info. Has my interest very piqued. I'm just starting out on the freehand sharpening quest and getting much sharper edges than I or my wife have ever enjoyed in the kitchen before but still have a lot to learn. So, please forgive the rookie questions.

A) I'm wondering exactly which "white compound" you use on the newspaper? Is this the solid white "crayon" style or a liquid in a bottle? (All the stropping compounds out there have me a little confused.)

B) I'm guessing that other stones (water, diamond, ceramic) would function similarly to the Crystalon once wrapped in the newsprint?

C) Do you think plain newsprint would do a similar job or is the newsprint ink necessary? (I have scads of plain packing paper leftover from moving house last year, so I'm curious.)

Thanks in advance

^ This. I use mineral oil on mine, but combined with someblack and white (coarse and fine) compound (I got mine at Sears) and some newspaper, its really all you need. I love my waterstones, but for convenience and portability the combo Crystalon stone is very hard to beat.


Illustrate my point, three pics at 640x - the first shows the edge straight off the SIC stone stropped with some plain newspaper, I've done this one a bunch of times and that's pretty much how it looks on every knife I've done - fairly irregular but with a clean apex. This edge can shave arm hair and just clip facial stubble.

The second shows the effects of about 40 light passes on white compound - two layers of newspaper wrapped around the fine side of the stone. Feels very smooth and uniform when stropping, modest amount of swarf left on the paper.
Modest improvement in fine cutting - facial stubble clipped with noticeably less pull and quietly crosscuts newspaper. Last pic shows one layer of paper wrapped around the coarse side of the stone and dosed with white compound - I apply a touch more pressure, just enough to feel the stone texture a little under the paper - maybe 15 passes/side. What a difference! The edge looks like I honed it on my Spyderco fine - whittled a hair in two places (had to do it twice cause I couldn't believe my eyes). I've been experimenting with compound on newspaper for a while now, it works well and very simple. Plus, maintenance couldn't be easier - just toss it in the recycling bin when it loads up. I am amazed at how much I used to overthink this. As an even easier method you can just (carefully) mop up with some newspaper the swarf, stone debris and oil that builds up on your stone from sharpening, and use that for your "polishing compound". Might not get you to whittling a hair, but you can get a very nice EDU edge that will casually shave arm hair and maybe even tree-top some leg hairs.

 

[Big D1]

@shudaizi

This white rouge at Sears. This is medium cut rouge. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-4-oz...p-00964147000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

And the black emery. Coarse cut compound. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...essories&sName=Bench Grinder Accessoriesmv=rr

I just picked up some black and white today, and my local Sears had it for $2.19 each. Sears online has it listed for $2.69.

I just use a Norton IB8 india stone and strop to sharpen knives, but the Norton JB8 silicon carbide is an excellent choice too for a bench stone.

@HeavyHanded

Never tried the black emery but I did today. Getting rid of the burr is a lot easier now while using the strop.

 

[Curtis_Lowe]

Last pic shows one layer of paper wrapped around the coarse side of the stone and dosed with white compound

I've been getting nice, but not great edges using the same method. I have been using 3-4 layers of newspaper on the fine side. I'm gonna have to try single layer on coarse side from now on.

 

[THG]

Get a Norton Crystolon or India combo stone. Both of them run about $20 and have coarse and finer sides. If you want a sharpener that will get your knives in working condition, go for one of those. You can get finer stones from DMT or whomever else if you want to refine the edge even more.

Heck, I got a Norton combo stone from Home Depot for about $6. It's a 6" x 2" stone, and it seems to be made of the same stuff as the Norton Crystolon stone. The only difference is that it's pretty badly convexed on one side and concaved on the other (it looks bent.) Just grind it on the sidewalk for a while under water until it's flat, and you've got yourself a great stone. In fact, it seems to grind metal better than the $20 Crystolon stone I bought...

 

[HeavyHanded]

HH: Great pics and fascinating info. Has my interest very piqued. I'm just starting out on the freehand sharpening quest and getting much sharper edges than I or my wife have ever enjoyed in the kitchen before but still have a lot to learn. So, please forgive the rookie questions.

A) I'm wondering exactly which "white compound" you use on the newspaper? Is this the solid white "crayon" style or a liquid in a bottle? (All the stropping compounds out there have me a little confused.)

B) I'm guessing that other stones (water, diamond, ceramic) would function similarly to the Crystalon once wrapped in the newsprint?

C) Do you think plain newsprint would do a similar job or is the newsprint ink necessary? (I have scads of plain packing paper leftover from moving house last year, so I'm curious.)

Thanks in advance

A)
Yes, the solid crayon type from Sears. The Dico compounds work well too, as do Flexcut Gold and the Green Cro sold at Woodcraft (don't have the packaging anymore - ?brand name). I use the Sears stuff because I have a ton of it lying around. The white stuff leaves an edge that still has a bit of bite to it. I've used the Black emery followed by the white to completely restore my machetes to arm hair shaving sharp after camping trips where they saw extensive chopping of downed hardwood. You can also make a thin paste using this stuff and some mineral oil to use on a piece of hardwood.


B)
Any stone will work, but watch out for really coarse stones as they can cause the edge to deform if too much pressure is used.

C)
Any thin paper will work, with or without ink. Heavier paper will give a smoother surface (generally) and a slightly more refined edge. I always finish with a few swipes on plain newspaper to put on a final polish.

Keep in mind, all stropping (even on a board) will slowly round over the apex and require periodic trips back to the stone. I imagine with flawless technique this might not be the case, but I cannot get to that level if its is possible. Go slow and don't be afraid to put a few dots along the bevel with a Sharpie to see where you're hitting.

 

[HeavyHanded]

@shudaizi

This white rouge at Sears. This is medium cut rouge. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-4-oz...p-00964147000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

And the black emery. Coarse cut compound. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...essories&sName=Bench Grinder Accessoriesmv=rr

I just picked up some black and white today, and my local Sears had it for $2.19 each. Sears online has it listed for $2.69.

I just use a Norton IB8 india stone and strop to sharpen knives, but the Norton JB8 silicon carbide is an excellent choice too for a bench stone.

@HeavyHanded

Never tried the black emery but I did today. Getting rid of the burr is a lot easier now while using the strop.

You'll be amazed at what you do with the emery compound. In addition to cleaning up a stubborn burr, it can recondition a fairly beat-up edge. Also, when convexing I use a hard stone and polish the transitions out with some black compound on newspaper - leaves a real nice satin finish.

 

[shudaizi]

Big D1 and HH:

thanks much, fellas, for answering my remedial questions. Lots of good info and I really appreciate the simplicity of this method; it's very appealing to me. Now I just have to work on the hard part ... the actual doing.

@shudaizi

This white rouge at Sears. This is medium cut rouge. http://www.sears.com/craftsman-4-oz...p-00964147000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

And the black emery. Coarse cut compound. http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...essories&sName=Bench Grinder Accessoriesmv=rr

I just picked up some black and white today, and my local Sears had it for $2.19 each. Sears online has it listed for $2.69.

I just use a Norton IB8 india stone and strop to sharpen knives, but the Norton JB8 silicon carbide is an excellent choice too for a bench stone.

@HeavyHanded

Never tried the black emery but I did today. Getting rid of the burr is a lot easier now while using the strop.

A)
Yes, the solid crayon type from Sears. The Dico compounds work well too, as do Flexcut Gold and the Green Cro sold at Woodcraft (don't have the packaging anymore - ?brand name). I use the Sears stuff because I have a ton of it lying around. The white stuff leaves an edge that still has a bit of bite to it. I've used the Black emery followed by the white to completely restore my machetes to arm hair shaving sharp after camping trips where they saw extensive chopping of downed hardwood. You can also make a thin paste using this stuff and some mineral oil to use on a piece of hardwood.


B)
Any stone will work, but watch out for really coarse stones as they can cause the edge to deform if too much pressure is used.

C)
Any thin paper will work, with or without ink. Heavier paper will give a smoother surface (generally) and a slightly more refined edge. I always finish with a few swipes on plain newspaper to put on a final polish.

Keep in mind, all stropping (even on a board) will slowly round over the apex and require periodic trips back to the stone. I imagine with flawless technique this might not be the case, but I cannot get to that level if its is possible. Go slow and don't be afraid to put a few dots along the bevel with a Sharpie to see where you're hitting.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Big D1 and HH:

thanks much, fellas, for answering my remedial questions. Lots of good info and I really appreciate the simplicity of this method; it's very appealing to me. Now I just have to work on the hard part ... the actual doing.

Go slow, use a Sharpie, and stop often to visually inspect what you're doing. Also, the black compound works well in its own right, makes a toothier edge for EDU. So most often I'll grind with the fine side of a Norton Crystalon stone, refine it with the white compound, and maintain it with the black compound or a combination of black and white compounds depending on what the tool is used for.

Interesting - this is essentially the same method I use for my waterstones. Grind with the 1000 grit, refine with a backhoning (stropping) on a 6000 grit stone, maintain it with a 4000 grit waterstone. Keep in mind, an abrasive on a conformable surface - even thin paper over a stone - will reduce the effective grit size by a considerable amount. A 600 grit abrasive used on a strop has an effective scratch pattern of something closer to 1500 grit or smaller.