I need sugestion

[Natlek]

Ok , at first plan was to mold carbon fiber handle on this blank .All in carbon ,gard and scale one piece .But now when i open that ellipse /weight saving/ I think that i will do this handle little different . New plan is to insert wood /ambonia burl / in that ellipse before I mold carbon on tang .What I'm not sure is gard.....It can be molded /one piece ,handle-gard / or I can use stainless gard and rest carbon .Steel gard will make things with molding carbon little more easy , but carbon.................that is my dilemma .What do you think will better fit , steel or carbon ?
I can't find picture of last scale I made from carbon with pieces of carbon fibber like this on picture....madness.It will take almost one day to cut and to tie enough carbon for this handle

This way .......carbon and wood ?

or this way ........steel-carbon-wood ?

 

[FredyCro]

Steel guard would also make finishing on the front of the guard easier and optically provide a nicer transition to blade?
Would you please do a small tutorial on the handle and guard fitting if you have time? I remember you use a cutting disk to do position the guard. Can you show how you peen or fix the guard as well?

 

[Natlek]

I'm not afraid of finishing ,Fredy .It will be real mess in both way .Everything would be covered with carbon ....so i can be sure that carbon is everywhere needed .I will need to find handle and gard inside I forgot to mention ....this one will get hardchrome treatment ...that will make things little easy , I can use fine chainsaw file for final shaping carbon all around handle /spine ,but and bottom side /
I don t know...gard from steel will look good but carbon scale would look like ordinary scale? With carbon gard and scales from one piece would be visible that it is one piece molded on tang and that to would look cool
About stainess gard ...........first i cut square piece and mark where pin hole need to be and drill it . Next I cut recess in gard to fit on ricasso .After that I grind gard close to shape I want to be , then I mount it on knife . Insert temporary pin and grind final shape .After that I tapper VERY little holes from both side , insert gard on place /i use little epoxy as rust prevent under/ put pin on place and peen it . That way there is no chance to over grind pin so it become visible....When i glue scale already 99% finished gard is guide to easy grind scale......
I hope it is clear ?
I use this stand/fixture for my small angle grinder to cut all i need for project like this .

 

[john april]

i think you should go with the steel carbon and wood. it will be more eyecatching. i do appreciate the idea of having it look like its all one piece, but any error will look bad and ruin the presentation. i really like that guard slot cutting machine !!

 

[Natlek]

Thanks steel carbon and wood ....yes ,more eyecatching... more detail .But that one piece cloud/marble carbon scale with red wood elipse would look cool to ..............hard to choice for me
Error...i don t except that ,carbon mixed with epoxy flow like mercury .Plan is to make steel mold like this one /with steel gard or without / ,thick cover on top and in press ....
Slot cutting machine It is poor man mill Two cutting disk jointed /1mm thick one / open exactly 2.5mm slot which is prefect for some steel i have .

 

[Mike Read]

If you are moulding your carbon/laminate directly onto the tang you can include a guard but you need to thin the tang at the edge so your laminate flows together without leaving a horrible gap.

I have been doing this sort of thing for a few years and have refined the design to a half tang arrangement with the plunge line behind the front edge of the handle. Sounds mad but works.

I posted some pics of various ideas here https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...that-are-up-and-coming.1598128/#post-18253296

And something more recent:

 

[Natlek]

Well @Mike Read , I'm glad you showed up here When I saw one of your knifes I know that I need to make something like that .I really like what are you done with handles.
Now , i don t think that I understand why I need to thin the tang at the edge...I m molding soft/not cured mix of carbon with epoxy .That under press pressure will fill any space inside ?
I make some scale from carbon fiber and that mix will find any small gap in mold to go out.....

https://bladeforums.com/threads/forged-carbon-fiber.1555008/

 

[Mike Read]

It depends what you are doing - and how you do it! I thought you were trying to make a mycarta/carbon guard as part of the handle - similar to how I do it. I might have misunderstood what you were trying to achieve

Your knife above you do not need to thin the tang because it is 'full tang' also I think you have made the micarta/carbon and then bonded it on.

I am talking about if you mould the carbon directly onto the tang. If it is full tang and the edge of the scales follow the edge of the steel then you do not need to thin the tang.
If you mould the carbon onto the tang and want a guard - like my last photo - thinning the tang helps the two sides flow together without a gap. You can see on my photos how the laminate flows together around the tang.

Hope that makes sense

That is a monster press, is it just for making laminates?

 

[Natlek]

It depends what you are doing - and how you do it! I thought you were trying to make a mycarta/carbon guard as part of the handle - similar to how I do it. I might have misunderstood what you were trying to achieve

Your knife above you do not need to thin the tang because it is 'full tang' also I think you have made the micarta/carbon and then bonded it on.

I am talking about if you mould the carbon directly onto the tang. If it is full tang and the edge of the scales follow the edge of the steel then you do not need to thin the tang.
If you mould the carbon onto the tang and want a guard - like my last photo - thinning the tang helps the two sides flow together without a gap. You can see on my photos how the laminate flows together around the tang.

Hope that makes sense

That is a monster press, is it just for making laminates?

Your post make sence ,mine doesn't seem to It is my bad English probably................Yes , full tang and the edge of scale will follow the edge of the steel AND meet in gard ...only place where would be visible that scale are molded on knife and are one PART is bottom side of gard , where finger rest ....That two big holes would be hidden pins ....i mean when i mold carbon thru that holes carbon would connect the scale....as pin
Never mind ........I cut and grind this afternoon another one .......make them twins New one would be with carbon gard/bolster so I move plunge little forward to have flat place for fit in mold . So I will make both way.One stainless gard and other one carbonfiber gard as part of scales
Yes , I make that press to fit in kitchen oven just for laminates ....There was factory for laminates close to me , so i know people there and I can get phenolic resin..and that resin need temperature to cure ........To bad that I will use wood in this project so no pehenolic resin .I like it more then epoxy with carbon but ....

One more time ................. knife with carbon fiber gard/bolster would look same as this one in middle with stainless gard .Scale would be one part only on botom side where is red circle on next pisture....Would be real mess but i will done that

 

[Natlek]

If you are moulding your carbon/laminate directly onto the tang you can include a guard but you need to thin the tang at the edge so your laminate flows together without leaving a horrible gap.

I have been doing this sort of thing for a few years and have refined the design to a half tang arrangement with the plunge line behind the front edge of the handle. Sounds mad but works.

Mike , to avoid that gap some fabric can be cut in shape of tang .Pressing fabric right to piece of steel with thicknes of tang can be easy found how many layers are needed to be cut....Something like this , I forget on that project .I learned why nobody use kevlar to make scales

 

[Mike Read]

I imagine kevlar was a nightmare to shape and finish I used it a few times years ago and it is not easy to work with.

I understand how you are doing your guards now - makes sense.

 

[Natlek]

I imagine kevlar was a nightmare to shape and finish I used it a few times years ago and it is not easy to work with.

I understand how you are doing your guards now - makes sense.

Kevlar.........never again
This is my mold for scale , I would do this in that .....
I wonder what would be better for molding carbon inside .......blade horizontal or vertical ? I have made one spare part /fit on one side / in which i need to cut slot so blade can stay out of mold ....

Also i wonder what if i make small slot on spine where gard would be ...to close the loop? blue color on picture ? Would look cool on spine ?

I found right wood for this ......stabilized , 150mm long and 10mm thick which is perfect...........there will be enough left for another project .

And now I realize that i have not 3mm drill bits which can dril pin hole in this MF ????

 

[Natlek]

It is time to make some progress with this project . I make wooden mold , on picture is one part .Other part would be open frame to fit over this one .I will soak them in wax and i will use baking paper over . First I will fill with carbon this one , insert other one on top of it and add carbon fiber .Then in press...............at least that is plan for now .For wood i will do something like this on picture....in the middle is wood thick same as tang of knife . Stainless pins are Tig welded to tang so they will stay where i want them to be . I hope all this would work i do this first time . If someone thinks I'm wrong somewhere, talk now until it's isn't too late .

 

[fitzo]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing!

 

[FredyCro]

Can you show how you mean to insert the piece in the press and what is being pressed where? Do you have some holes for excess epoxy? I would really like to see this work.
Crazy project as ever

 

[Natlek]

Can you show how you mean to insert the piece in the press and what is being pressed where? Do you have some holes for excess epoxy? I would really like to see this work.
Crazy project as ever

When i fill all carbon inside i will put cover on top of that and everything under press ?? No need for hole for excess epoxy , under pressure it will leak out easy.Mold is not sealed that much to stop epoxy .I don t worry about that .I plan to mix several independent batch of carbon and use them part by part .It is not easy to take small amount from mix....I will use longer strand carbon tied in knots and when I mix them with epoxy it will be hard to take from that small amount.I will prepare other mold for for the excess carbon that remains and I will make at least one scale ....That s the plan
Here is picture from previous post how it will look in press ,except that mold is from wood and only on top of cover i will use other part from thick steel

 

[FredyCro]

When i fill all carbon inside i will put cover on top of that and everything under press ?? No need for hole for excess epoxy , under pressure it will leak out easy.Mold is not sealed that much to stop epoxy .I don t worry about that .I plan to mix several independent batch of carbon and use them part by part .It is not easy to take small amount from mix....I will use longer strand carbon tied in knots and when I mix them with epoxy it will be hard to take from that small about .I will prepare other mold for for the excess carbon that remains and I will make at least one scale ....That s the plan
Here is picture from previous post how it will look in press ,except that mold is from wood and only top on top wooden part i will use other part from thick steel

It just looked like the knife would be in the way of the press frame, but I guess that's not a problem if you change orientation?
I would still make a couple of holes on the side of the frame for the epoxy, it will make the clean up easier and not have all the epoxy overflow your mould. I think the hardest part it to decide how much to press, to not have too much or too little of the epoxy and/or one side of the handle (upper?) too thin, but I think you will figure that out.

 

[Natlek]

It just looked like the knife would be in the way of the press frame, but I guess that's not a problem if you change orientation?
I would still make a couple of holes on the side of the frame for the epoxy, it will make the clean up easier and not have all the epoxy overflow your mould. I think the hardest part it to decide how much to press, to not have too much or too little of the epoxy and/or one side of the handle (upper?) too thin, but I think you will figure that out.

I will change orientation of course , inch thick steel under mold and that is that .Actually since this does not have to be in the oven , maybe I will use my hydraulic press
No holes in mold Fredy , carbon mixed with epoxy flows like mercury , it would pass through a two-millimeter hole. I'm not afraid that it won't fill even the smallest part of the inside, even those crescent moon-shaped pins. I don t care about that mold , it was made for one use anyway . How much to press ? As much as i can ,i want as much epoxy to squeeze out .Less epoxy stronger product, less chance for air trapped inside .To be sure that everything would come ok i make mold much deeper/bigger then necessary, i have other part in same dimension like this one but it is open frame and fit on top of this one .So from top side i will have much more thick carbon on handle .I will waste some carbon that way / I can recycle it and reuse it / but that guarantees me that i will end up with nice handle at the end .

 

[Natlek]

It just looked like the knife would be in the way of the press frame, but I guess that's not a problem if you change orientation?
I would still make a couple of holes on the side of the frame for the epoxy, it will make the clean up easier and not have all the epoxy overflow your mould. I think the hardest part it to decide how much to press, to not have too much or too little of the epoxy and/or one side of the handle (upper?) too thin, but I think you will figure that out.

Picture of complete mold Fredy , it has two part . I hope it is clear now how i plan to do this .First i will fill bottom part of mold , press carbon as much as i can , next insert other part and fill it with rest of carbon .Carbon mix will have huge volume so i need deep hole in mold ...problem is to keep carbon inside under pressure .Small gap anywhere and it will leak out like it is water.....When pressed that cover should be about two or three millimeters higher of the top edge of bottom part .That is some guarantee that whole handle /tang is filled tight/under pressured carbon I Think !

My nightmare right now ................. is that i need to tie and cut carbon like this,only shorter ends.I will need thousands of pieces like that for this .For no money I can convince my son to do that ....

 

[FredyCro]

Picture of complete mold Fredy , it has two part . I hope it is clear now how i plan to do this .First i will fill bottom part of mold , press carbon as much as i can , next insert other part and fill it with rest of carbon .Carbon mix will have huge volume so i need deep hole in mold ...problem is to keep carbon inside under pressure .Small gap anywhere and it will leak out like it is water.....When pressed that cover should be about two or three millimeters higher of the top edge of bottom part .That is some guarantee that whole handle /tang is filled tight/under pressured carbon I Think !

My nightmare right now ................. is that i need to tie and cut carbon like this,only shorter ends.I will need thousands of pieces like that for this .For no money I can convince my son to do that ....

Why do you need to tie the carbon?