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I need your guys opinion on this

Before coming on this forum, why didn't you contact Viele directly???? I mean, you wanted a Viele, you got a Viele and then 2 weeks later buyer's remorse sets in...

Les is in the knife selling business, not the knife-repair business. It seems that both of your issues are extremely minor, maybe even trivial and can be fixed rapidly by HV.

You opted for instant availablity from a purveyor, instead of the 1-2 year wait from Viele. There are definately conditions that go along with that.

Viele knives are good quality, but I have never handled one that was particularly sharp as they are usually pretty thick at the edge. Howard also seems to favor a small diameter hollow grinding wheel. Had you ever handled a custom Viele before buying Les's?

Business is business.
In the world of high priced luxury items, if a dealer refunded every buyer with remorse
-after- the stated and agreed-upon inspection period, there wouldn't be many dealers out there.

This seems pretty cut and dry. Another example of running to the forums to indirectly solve your warranty issues, while at the same time creating a PR headache for the dealer who apparently filled his part of the bargain-getting your knife to you in a timely manner in new condition.

Also keep in mind when trading, that the dealer has every right to sell those traded goods after the inspection period. If the traded-in knives get sold on day 8, and you complain on day 13, what recourse do you have? Since this was not a cash deal, does the buyer ever really deserve retail value of the knife back in cash if the traded-goods were sold?

Lets be careful how we present dealings with people who do this for a living. Les is honest, accessible, and has a great reputation for fulfilling his end of the bargain. Sometimes the makers have to fulfill their end also, as their warranties on defects extend way past the obligation of the purveyor.

We as consumers also have to fulfill our end of the bargain-to buy from people that offer policies that we deem fair and reasonable. We must also stick to those agreed-upon rules when things don't go our way after the fact. The customer is NOT always right.

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"The most effective armor is to keep out of range"-Italian proverb
 
Cool Mitch,

I knew I'd get that out of you somehow. How much do I have to throw in to get you take the knife? You saw it.


Jeff
 
Anthony,

Thanks for your input also.

I came on this forum because it is for the airing of problems in knife deals, either real or perceived. OK?


Jeff
 
You asked ~ so I throw in my thoughts on this matter.

First, doesn't matter if this was a trade or straight out purchase. Simply, a monetary loss/gain took place.

Secondly, you accepted the knife in a less than sharp state ("not a problem as I know a guy who can sharpen it real good."). There was no need to bring that portion up.

Third, I possess several Viele's and none arrived to my abode ~ very "sharp." Maybe we need to send Howard back to knife sharpening class!
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Forth, 13 days after the transaction was complete ~ the thumb stud departs the blade. Man, that sucks and I feel your pain! But, if it fell off on or before day 7 ~ you have all the rights in the world to go back to Les. Day 8+....you need to take it up with the maker!

Fifth, I've had several transactions with Les (no no no ~ this isn't a "defend Les" post) and he's a very stand-up person and dealer! To let you know how "stand-up" ~ I purchased a knife from another forumite and sent the knife back to the maker for a total rehab. The original owner had purchased the knife from Les (several years prior). The maker refused to resharpen the blade because the blade had been modified after it "originally" left the maker. Just by chance I had mentioned this to Les.....he immediately offered to step in and talk to the maker for me. He also asked me to send the knife to him and he'd have the knife resharpened for me.

Finally, in all of my knife dealings (dealers, makers, and forumites) I've quickly discovered that 99.999% of them have been exceptional and generally go out of their way to make things right!

I hope that it all works out for you!

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GigOne
"Livin' Life - Full Throttle"
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"Happiness is a belt-fed weapon & a Walter Brend Model 2!"
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[This message has been edited by GigOne (edited 12-30-2000).]
 
Jeff, I disagree that this forum is for airing "percieved" bad deals.

It is for airing BAD deals that actually occurred.

I am not flaming you, I am just alarmed at the trend of posters to run immediately to GB&U to settle disputes when all avenues to do so have not been investigated.

It is frankly a waste of bandwidth, and can negatively impact someone's business and public image, even if it all gets settled in the end amicably.

Again, I understand your need to air the issue publicly, however, please keep in mind that whenever you buy something off the net you take a risk not liking it.

Because-

1)You haven't seen the item in question-every knife whether production or custom has its own idiosyncrosies. Purchasing a knife )OR ANYTHING) in person is still the best way to spend hard-earned money.

2)Take advantage of rights given to you by law (3 days), credit card companies, or the seller. (In this case 7 days)

3)Don't assume the knife in this case was "defective", and that Les should have caught the problems. I have handled thousands of custom knives and frankly, not all of the "sought after" makers are created equal.

Some makers thread and loc-tite their thumb studs, sharpen their blades to razors-edge, and build their knives as robustly as tanks-Others do not. That is something you cannot learn from pictures on the net, but is simply learned from handling numerous numbers of a particular makers knives.

I once returned a liner-lock back to a very high end maker of tactical folders.The knife cost me in excess of $500 dollars, which was very fair market value at the time.

I bought this knife based on the maker's stellar reputation although I had never closely scrutinized his knives. When I initially recieved the knife, I admired the quality, but the construction was laughingly flimsy for a "tactical knife", it was more like a tactical-letter opener.

With moderate hand pressure on the back of the spine, the wafer-thin liner warped and the knife was ruined. I sent the knife back to the maker who cheerfully replaced the liner and stated "Thats how I build all of my knives and have for years". I sold the refurbed knife at a small loss to someone who was happy to get it and have never thought twice about the wafer-thin liner-lock maker's knives again.

Lesson learned. (And now I collect mostly fixed-blades
smile.gif


 
Anthony,

"This is your area to tell about your experiences (Good or Bad) with dealers." is the actual description of this forum. My posts relate my recent experience with Les. Whether in your opinion the dealings I've had with Les are "Good or Bad" is entirely up to the individual and accordingly they can make their own decisions on whether they will deal with him or not. Negative posts (or postive ones for that matter) affecting an individuals business is the ultimate goal of this forum. And according to the description of GBU, it is not only for "BAD deals that have actually occured."


Jeff
 
Imp... Don't keep answering these guy's! They live to argue about anything, and they will keep going, and going no matter how much you explain yourself. So the best thing to do is stop coming back with another reply. You didn't do anything wrong, so don't worry about it.
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Right Antne, i mean anthony?

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BC... For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know... Semper Fi
 
Guys thanks for all the support. This started as Jeff trying to get a second opinion.

He got it, and a third and fourth, etc.

To most of you on this forum, this was a collector transaction. For me this was a business transaction.

Understandably, there would be two points of view.

It appears Jeff has traded off the knife. So at this point this thread would appear to be moot.

Anthony brought up some excellent points, as did Gig, Senator and Narruc1. Gene, buddy if you ever do buy a $500+ custom knife (or trade for one) and your not happy. Don't throw it in the ocean. Send it to me, Ill cut you a check for the shipping!

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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur

[This message has been edited by Les Robertson (edited 12-31-2000).]
 
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