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I need your guys opinion on this

I

imp

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Messages
206
Hey guys, just needed an opinion on this.

I recently got a knife that was pretty much on the high end via a trade w/an established knife dealer. The knife arrived, nice in appearance. That's where the nice ends. First of all it was unsharpened, not a problem as I know a guy who can sharpen it real good. So I didn't play w/it or carry it just stuck it in a knife roll to take w/me on my next visit to my friends to get it sharpened.

He sharpens it, I'm driving home and playng with it and the thumb stud falls out. It's press fitted so I can't just screw it in.

At this point I really don't want the knife any more so I contact the dealer who answers that he is inclined not to take the knife back as we made a trade for specific items, and I should send it back to the maker as the maker really stands behind his work.

I must also mention that it has been at least a week or 2 since the deal transpired so he states that since it's been more than a week he is again inclined not to take it back.

Ok, here's the question. Should I let it die and just eat it, lesson learned. Or is this a screwed up situation. I did have the knife for a week or 2 b4 it started falling apart, so am I stuck with it. Should I expect the dealer to make good on this. Or what?


Thanks,
Jeff
 
As a professional businessman he should not pass the buck. It seems that he did not disclose the condition of the item reasonably. A screwed up situation to be sure. I know a guy on island that will set you up right for production and customs. Let me know if you want his number or something.

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"How sharper than a serpent's tooth it is to have a thankless child.", King Lear, Act I, Scene 4.
 
Send it back to the maker.Get it fixed and trade it to someone or sell it.Don't keep the knife if you do not like it.IMHO

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have a"knife"day
 
imp,

It doesn't sound like you'll get anywhere with the "dealer", so have you tried contacting the maker via E-mail to get this problem resolved?

Let us know what happens, so if need be, we all can gather-up and go over and have a "chat" with the maker of this wonderful knife.
smile.gif
.

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Dann Fassnacht
Aberdeen, WA
glockman99@hotmail.com
ICQ# 53675663
 
nifrand, I wouldn't wish this knife on anyone, so I wouldn't trade it. And a person who holds himself out to be the Preeminent Custom Knife authority of the internet if not the world, I would think he would be more professional and courteous.

I have now been accused of "doing something" to the stud to "make it" fall out. I admit I did do something, I opened the knife 3 times using the stud.

I had hoped to reach an amicable resolution to this, but apparently it will get interesting.


Jeff
 
Jeff, the plain audacity of using the thumbstud!

I would say the fellow should make it proper!

G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
 
So, here is what I would guess is the final reply.

The knife was fine when it was sent. I requested a specific trade, and the trade was sent and completed. I recv'd on a specific date and didn't inform him til 13 days later that there was a problem. This was after his 7 day inspection period expired. In the dealers estimation he isn't responsible for the thumb stud falling out and he is incensed that I am upset because "he is not bending over backwards" to take back a knife that did not have a problem when it was sent. "One could infer that you did something to make the thumbstud fall out." "Any repair work that needs to be done is between you and the maker." (direct quote from email).

I'm not gonna have a coronary over this, but I'm not gonna let it die either. I emailed the guy again and if I don't hear from him by the morning I'll post his name. I don't give a $hit cause I'm nobody, don't have nothing can't lose anything, just a guy who works for every $ I spend. BTW, from what email I've recvd it appears you guys already know who I'm talking about.


Jeff

[This message has been edited by imp (edited 12-28-2000).]
 
Hi Imp...

IMHO..
It all depends on how things are set up with the dealer and maker...

What the Dealers policy is on returns/repair...?

In defense of the dealer.. I think I know who you are speaking of...

There are Many factors to consider
Is the dealer resonsible for warranty work or is the maker ?

Especially under such a short time frame...

Does the Dealer give a warranty of his own,,and how long ?

Was the knife new or used ?

You did sharpen it,,so a replacement is definately out of the question..

In your defense though,, it should at the Very least be repaired for you at N/C...

The maker should take care of this for you.

Possibly ask for a refund of your shipping expenses back to the maker from the Dealer..
It was only a two week period...

Theres lots of possibilities here..
We are only hearing your end of the story..

I'm not saying that your are unjustified in your post...

On the other hand though..
Whats the other sides story...??


Don't get me wrong.. I'm definately Not picking sides..
I'm trying to stay in the middle as much as possible..

ttyle

Eric...

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On/Scene Tactical
Leading The Way In Quality Synthetic Sheathing

[This message has been edited by Normark (edited 12-28-2000).]
 
Hi Jeff,

Well for those of you who have not figured this out, I am the dealer Jeff is talking about.

The knife is a Viele Thorn serial #001.

First and foremost this was a trade, not a purchase.

I was contacted by Jeff about making a trade on this knife. I agreed.

As most of you know I have a trade in policy that I will take any knife back in trade (that is purchased from me) and allow full value purchase value of the knife towards a knife that is at least $150.00 more.

Because Jeff is a good customer I waved that policy and took a knife back that did not meet that criteria of my policy.

As Jeff says he did have the knife for almost 2 weeks(13 days to be exact)before he contacted me about the problem with the thumb stud.

My return policy is in writing and gives any one 7 days to return a knife. While this is for purchases, I extend this to trades as well. I think you would agree that 7 days is more than enough time to examine a knife.

Legally, I am only required to give 3 business days to examine the knife. So I thought when I wrote my return policy by more than doubling this, I was being fair.

If after the 7 days something goes wrong, it is up to the owner of the knife to contact the maker and have the problem resolved. If for some reason the maker will not fix the knife, then I will find one who will.

Regarding the sharpness of the knife, Jeff never asked about how "sharp" the knife was. As sharpness is a relative not a precise term. I don't overly concern myself with that issue. If I buy a knife for myself that isn't as sharp as I would like, then I sharpen it.

When I shipped the knife there was no problem with the thumb stud. The sharpness issue was never brought up and Jeff knew of my 7 day return policy.

My policies are in writing and in place to protect both my clients and myself. These policies remove any confusion or doubt in either parties mind. These policies have to be enforced in order to facilitate business being done in a timely manner.

So now you have the other side of the story.

I suspect that if checked with other dealers you would find they would handle this situation in a similar manner.

So far my part I consider this closed.

Jeff, if Howard will not fix the knife let me know and I will get it taken care of for you.



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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
 
Les,

Other dealers have offered to take the knife and give me my money back. That is how other dealers would handle it.

Anyway, whatever. No sense just going back and forth about it. The name is out and the consumer can make their own $ decisions as they see fit.

Several options and ways to proceed will LYK what happens.


jeff

[This message has been edited by imp (edited 12-28-2000).]
 
Heres my opinion.First;If I do business with a dealer,I expect that dealer to back his products whether I purchase or trade for the knife(to me there is no difference,the dealer is going to make money either way,but I expect no less in service)Now Les allows more time than he is legally obligated to allow for returns(7 days instead of only
3).However,I think each case needs to be judged on its own merits,and not just refusing to help somebody because time ran out.If this guy had the knife a couple of months,then maybe its for him and the maker to work out.What happens if a person buys a knife from a dealer as a present for someones birthday 6 weeks later.When the person receives it the thumbstud falls out after he manipulates it a dozen times?Should the person be stuck with the knife?If it was given as a gift,might we not no of any defects until the day the recipient opens his/her gift?Here's an example of why I think that different situations dictate how to handle a return.There is circumstances in life where one might make exceptions to the "rule".In this case its thirteen days,at the very least you could have taken it back to visually inspect the knife,all the years experience in knives would have told you if the customer abused the knife.If it looked like it was a defect,then you could have sent it back for the customer.This gives the impression that you care,and your going to try to make the customer happy even if your not required to get involved after the time limit.Otherwise it looks like you just adbandoned him,took the money and ran.This doesn't make a dealer look good,even if you are not legally obligated,others may perceive a moral obilgation.I think this would have made you look better and maybe he would get it back faster from the maker if your involved.Now it seems that you've lost a potential repeat customer.What condition the knife was received in or what made the stud fall out is anybodies guess.If it is a pressed fit thumbstud,either its defective or someone had to go through alot of trouble to make it fall out.I think speculation is a waste of time,who knows what really happened to it.I think the occasional situation like this that could come up is better just to back the product up,unless you can prove that it was the users abuse that caused it to fail,I can't see tarnishing ones businesses ethics.I hope that all can be worked out.Best Regards,Ralph
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">He sharpens it...</font>
Click to expand...


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">At this point I really don't want the knife any more...</font>
Click to expand...


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The knife was fine when it was sent. I requested a specific trade, and the trade was sent and completed. I recv'd on a specific date and didn't inform him til 13 days later that there was a problem. This was after his 7 day inspection period expired.</font>
Click to expand...

My emphasis added.

It looks prety cut-and-dried to me. The knife arrived in good shape. Now I agree that the knife should have already been sharpened, but you should've contacted Les immediately about that. If you had contacted Les about sharpening it, and he had told you to have your friend sharpen it, that that's one thing. But to take it upon yourself to let the 7-day inspection period pass, and to then sharpen the knife, well I think that should remove any obligation Les had to take the knife back. I think Les is right - you should take the matter up with the maker.

Now, as to whether you'll ever do business with Les again, that's certainly your perogative...

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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection

Member NCCKG, SCAK, and AKTI

Deo Vindice
 
Not that I know anything about custom knives, but if it were me, I would contact the maker directly about the imperfections, and see if I could get the problem resolved through him.....

If I couldn't get any satisfation from the maker (pretty rare thing), I would probably take the knife to the nearest lake and throw it as far as I could! Consider it a lesson learned!

Get me once, shame on you --- Get me twice, shame on me!

Just my 2 cents!
 
Hi Jeff... I'm sorry that this happened to you, and though I'm sympathetic to your predicament, I really don't think the dealer that traded you the knife knew that the stud would fall out.

What is hard to believe, is that a pressed thumb stud could just fall out before becoming a little loose first; In which case you would have felt it while opening it that couple of times. Another thought is, in a case like this how long after a buyer receives the merchandise is the seller responsible for it?

I think the dealer did the right thing by telling you to send it back to the maker. It is a high end knife, and the maker will stand behind his product, but I also believe that the dealer that sold you, or in this case traded you the knife should pay for the S&H for you.

As for the knife not being sharp... Well, that happens a lot on high end knives. The maker sends his knife out the way he wants, and that is the way the dealer got it. If he did sharpen it, he couldn't in good faith sell it as NIB. Now that you sharpened it you can't either, and if you do put it up for sale, you should put in your description that it has been sharpened.

I wish you good luck, and a Happy, and Safe New Year!
smile.gif


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us_marine_corps_md_clr.gif
BC... For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know... Semper Fi
 
Hi Jeff,

Dealing directly with a maker can be a fun and interesting part of knife collecting. Call Mr. Viele, have a chat! Though a faulty knife is never a good thing (though it DOES sometimes happen even with the best) interfacing with the maker is part of the gig!

-Michael

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Chefget's Knife Page
Cook?
RecipePack Kitchen Management software
 
I don't think the dealer knew about the thumbstud either,sometimes sh** happens.I think what imp was trying to say was he could live with the sharpness because he could easily take care of that "defect"sharpness defect being secondary to the more important stud falling out.Hey it could happen,maybe the guy didn't play with it to much until after it was sharpened and just let it sit in his knife roll.How was the knife sharpened?could it have been done on a sharpening wheel and maybe something happened to the knife then,maybe over heated the blade?Maybe the wheel caught the stud and made it become loose.Who the heck knows?This guy has been a member since 98 and I've never heard anything bad about him,so he seems to be on the up and up.I still stand by original opinion,sorry if that doesn't go over well.How a dealer or any store or business even not related to knives handles situations like this,is how I decide who to do business with.I don't expect someone to lose their shirt and put themselves out of business by replacing knives for someone that is complaining 6 months later.However;My personal opinion about this individual case is posted above,or someone posted the idea that maybe he sends it back and the dealer pay the shipping.Even that would be something more reasonable than what was offered to him.Thank you;Ralph
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">This guy has been a member since 98 and I've never heard anything bad about him,so he seems to be on the up and up.</font>
Click to expand...

I agree with that. I've never heard anything bad about him either, and don't doubt his sincerity. He asked for an opinion...

Like I said in my last post, if he's not satisfied with the treatment he received from the seller, he should take that into consideration when deciding whether or not to do business with him again. Likewise, the seller needs to evaluate whether or not the potential for future sales is affected by his return policies and act accordingly. It's a delicate balance indeed...
smile.gif


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Kelly
My Custom Knife Collection

Member NCCKG, SCAK, and AKTI

Deo Vindice
 
Good point,It is a very delicate balance,with many difficult judgement calls to make.Ralph
 
Knife getting fixed.

Thanks for all the opinions, appreciate them all.


Jeff

[This message has been edited by imp (edited 12-30-2000).]
 
Jeff,
I have a Speedtech Synergy I might trade you for
wink.gif


Jeff is a totally stand up guy. I handled the knife in question when I saw him this past week. I'm glad it's getting fixed.

~Mitch

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My Hobby Page
 
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