I really want to like CS's new Arkansas Toothpick, but...

The gator tip on the scabbard bothers me more than the knife. The handle is very historic, and while it's goofy it amuses me that they went with the alligator. Everyone does the horse/gator on repros, so it's nice to see an odd choice. The blade style is off, but not so off, to bother me. Here are two older double edged Bowies -

https://historical.ha.com/itm/milit...BrowseTabs-Auction-Archive-ThisAuction-120115 .

https://historical.ha.com/itm/edged...-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-ThisAuction-120115 - This bottom style blade is the most common, although all are rare.

Edit - another -

H1050-L45924548.jpg
.

Here a English style large game hunting knife, sort of a cousin to the Bowie -

22853013_1_x.jpg
.
 
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Chris_Texas said:
I agree, they really lost the plot on this one. Speaking for myself, I think it looks completely wrong on every level. Starting with the appearance, the style looks off by about five-hundred years. The faux engraving not only looks fake as hell, but it's also bad art. How in the hell do you screw that up?Moving along, the steel isn't anything I would deliberately choose for a weapon, and the entire package is absurdly heavy.

Summary: a wall hanging toy aught to be much better looking, cheaper, and made by someone else. A reproduction should look like a historic example. A weapon should be made of quality steel and designed to be useful as such-- for a weapon like this that means something relatively light and agile.

But that's just my opinion. If someone else owns and loves it they aren't wrong, we just have different tastes.
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" ...the steel isn't anything I would deliberately choose for a weapon..." could you explain, please, why that steel would be inadequate? I am not familiar with it and was just curious as to your reasons for stating what you did.
 
I like it except for the motifs on the scabbard. They should have left it unadorned.
 
The Whip said:
While I agree that the new Arkansas Toothpick model doesn't look "traditional" as I think of it, it's far more historical than I realized. I did some research and the ball-end quillons were actually fairly prevalent at that time.

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As for the motif, it's also accurate and genuine for the period. That stylized alligator appeared on Bowies of the era.

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Lynn's been a collector of historical knives his whole life. I'd be willing to bet that the Cold Steel Toothpick replicates one in his collection.


-Steve
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Fantastic post! I love it when people prove their position with FACTS (as you have done).
 
CCOtter said:
" ...the steel isn't anything I would deliberately choose for a weapon..." could you explain, please, why that steel would be inadequate? I am not familiar with it and was just curious as to your reasons for stating what you did.
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Great question.

I have every confidence that 1055 steel is adequate when it comes to weapons. It is undoubtedly superior to the steel used in most melee weapons throughout all of history. But is it the best steel choice for a weapon for me? In my (usually ignorant) opinion that answer is NO. My understanding is that 1055 is a steel suitable for tools that are expected to see heavy use and abuse. Which might we exactly what you want in a sword -- particularly for customers who are going to test and even abuse their weapons, and who are looking for the best bang for their buck.

But is it my choice for a weapon? Not for me personally. I don't beat the crap out of my weapons, so I don't need the great things that 1055 brings to the table. Instead, I focus more on raw strength, edge retention and durability, and (to a lesser extent) corrosion resistance.

Right now I prefer 3V, A2, 52100, or CPM 154.

I was very hesitant to answer this because I am afraid that someone might think that I am talking trash about something they own. That's not my intent, and if I give that impression it is unintended. I think that a tool or weapon in 1055 is something anyone can be proud to own. Particularly if it is made by a reputable company like Cold Steel.
 
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I have continued poking around on the web for pics of antique Bowie & Arkansas Toothpick type knives, just soaking in visual info about these historic implements.
Anyhow, one of the things I see so oftentimes done on modern day made specimens, (especially coming from India that are based on those historic knives), is the ball type ending on the tips of the chape.
I always thought that embellishment was somehow missing the mark of authentic features of the old ones.
Well, this specimen I found online, supposedly from the 1850 to 1870 period, has it's chape with that ball type tip.
Of course the Cold Steel Arkansas Toothpick we have been discussing here, has that ball ending chape as well.
I have always liked that extra final touch on the chape, but just felt it was more a part of a modern embellishment, than something really found on the old specimens. Well, the pics of this antique specimen has me learning more about what to expect or not expect on modern made reproductions and/or modern antique based knives.
In general, this thread discussion with you folks has me learning things that are proving my recent assumptions were simply wrong.
I was always told not to assume things, (for obvious reasons), but I still manage to step in it from time to time! :)







The pics above that I took screenshots of, were found online, and are supposedly of a Joseph Rodgers knife made during the 1850 to 1870 period.

The hunter type Bowie knife pics found below are of my own Joseph Rodgers specimen. It likely dates from the 1890's to maybe around 1920.
In my mind, I tended to think of it's sheath's chape as representing what was the norm on Bowie era knives. Now, with the pics of that other Joseph Rodgers... Well, I can see the error in my thinking.


 
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Chris_Texas said:
Great question.

I have every confidence that 1055 steel is adequate when it comes to weapons. It is undoubtedly superior to the steel used in most melee weapons throughout all of history. But is it the best steel choice for a weapon for me? In my (usually ignorant) opinion that answer is NO. My understanding is that 1055 is a steel suitable for tools that are expected to see heavy use and abuse. Which might we exactly what you want in a sword -- particularly for customers who are going to test and even abuse their weapons, and who are looking for the best bang for their buck.

But is it my choice for a weapon? Not for me personally. I don't beat the crap out of my weapons, so I don't need the great things that 1055 brings to the table. Instead, I focus more on raw strength, edge retention and durability, and (to a lesser extent) corrosion resistance.

Right now I prefer 3V, A2, 52100, or CPM 154.

I was very hesitant to answer this because I am afraid that someone might think that I am talking trash about something they own. That's not my intent, and if I give that impression it is unintended. I think that a tool or weapon in 1055 is something anyone can be proud to own. Particularly if it is made by a reputable company like Cold Steel.
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Chris, first let me apologize for being late to reply to you. Have been having a few health issues and haven't been on line. I thought your answer was great and well thought out. I don't see how anyone could be offended by what you wrote. You were simply stating your point of view. I certainly did not get the impression you were talking trash. I think the qualities you mentioned (strength, edge retention, durability) have to be taken into account for something that you may have to stake your life or well-being on, and if the particular steel does not meet your needs, then on to one that does. My question was asked more out of ignorance of what 1055 is used for, and its charachteristics, than anything else. Thanks for your reply. Again, I apologize for the delay in responding to your answer.
 
I've been patiently waiting to see if any reviews would come out concerning this CS Arkansas Toothpick, (shared by folks that may acquire it).
But, here we are in September, and Cold Steel has yet to release any onto the market. I would guess that the pandemic situation the world has encountered, is likely the culprit for this knife's delay.
The more I looked at the pics of this model online, the more it's styling grew on me.
Well, after some hesitancy, I decided to order one anyway.
Hoping it will become a reality before too much longer. Nowhere do I see an "estimated time of arrival" for it, so it's just a waiting game.

🤞😊🤞
 
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Just wanted to add, although the pics CS uses for this knife are likely computer generated, I don't see any brand or country of origin markings on the ricasso.
Maybe that will be the case, as is done with their India made knives and swords... But, only time will tell if that is going to be the case. I would prefer the markings to be hidden or very discreet on this type of knife.
 
karnaknives said:
I’d like it better if it was Mickey Mouse.
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I pretty much felt that way too... Well, until I saw a video on historic Bowie knives, and was surprised to see one having a pommel with pretty much the same engraving.
At first, when seeing the engraving of the CS product, I thought to myself how off they were on it.
But, now, while it still seems weird looking to me, I no longer feel that the engraving on the pommel has no historic counterpart... It actually does! If it's an alligator they wanted it to look like, it turned out as goofy on the CS pommel, as it did on that original Bowie pommel I saw on that video.
Because of that, the CS Arkansas Toothpick started to look better to me, even with it's goofy animal engraving 😆

In the following video, the historic "goofy" engraving counterpart can be seen.
It's shown between the 16:45 to 16:60 minute marks. Yup, pretty much the same goofy look! 😆
The Historian does say that it's a "all Alligator" motif, not a half horse/half alligator...


The following two pics shows a pommel screenshot I took of the historic Bowie in the above video, and a pommel picture of the current CS Arkansas Toothpick offering.
While they may not be identical, they are VERY similar overall in the look of the Alligator. I am guessing that it may even be the motif that the CS knife's motif was based upon ...




I am hoping that the pommel and guard on this CS knife is made of either steel or nickel silver, and not of some form of zinc alloy. Being made of zinc would be a huge bummer for me!

PS... I don't expect this model to be a big seller, and see it as a prime candidate for the new Cold Steel owners to place it on the chopping block pretty quickly.
I guessed that to be the case with CS's new Chaos Push Knife, and that one is already being put on sale/clearance on some online vendor websites. If nothing else, that usually means that it places them a bit on the more rare of CS items going forward into the near future, which could add a wee bit to their collectable status.

In any case, it seems I will likely be getting a specimen of one of these Alligator, (or maybe Platypus), motif Cold Steel Arkansas Toothpick knives.
I only say "likely" because, although I placed a pre-order for one, who's to say that it won't become a vaporware product that, in the end, never actually hits the market? Anything is possible with all of the obstacles that the pandemic has caused for companies. I mean, if the demand looks like it will be low to begin with for this model, I could see CS simply telling their contracted manufacturer to just scrap the idea altogether, especially if the hold up(s) have caused them to not have even begun producing any yet.
Again, this was supposed to be one of the new products for the 2021 year, and with it now being well into September, it has proven to be a non existent item. We shall see... I will certainly share pics and any opinions about it here, if I ever do actually receive one 👍😊👍
 
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I believe I already mentioned somewhere that I have a certain hunch about Lynn Thompson having this Arkansas Toothpick, and their latest Hungarian Saber, being made in Taiwan.
My hunch is this... That he was testing out the waters to see if Cold Steel's line of historically based knives and swords being made in India, (most, if not all, coming from Windlass Steelcrafts), could start being replaced by similar time period based knives and swords made in Taiwan.
I don't know if there would be a cost savings by eventually shifting that India line to Taiwan, but I imagine there would usually be less time lag in receiving the product in country, since the Taiwan manufactures would be using more modern methods/machinery, where as the India made products involves a lot of the slower to do hand crafted methods and such.
The Taiwan made would also cut down on the more common inconsistencies and/or defects that the India made products are likely to have more of, (which I'm sure has caused headaches for Cold Steel). It's all just a hunch on my part, but now with Lynn not calling the shots, who knows if that switch would be made anyway.
If I am not mistaken, neither of these two new Taiwan made models have yet to make it into the United States.
I'm sooo curious as to how their final execution will be done on these. The Hungarian sword doesn't call out to me... Yet!
But, the Arkansas Toothpick had kept calling out my name... And hence, as I mentioned above, my pre-order for one has been placed 😆

Here is a recent video where Lynn Thompson discusses the new Cold Steel Arkansas Toothpick and does a little bit of pig stabbing and cutting with it 👍😆👍

It starts just after the 10:40 minute mark...

 
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PocketKnifeJimmy said:
I believe I already mentioned somewhere that I have a certain hunch about Lynn Thompson having this Arkansas Toothpick and their latest Hungarian Saber offerings, and they being contracted to be made in Taiwan.
My hunch is this... That he was testing out the waters to see if Cold Steel's line of historically based knives and swords being made in India, (most, if not all, coming from Windlass Steelcrafts), could start being replaced by similar time period based knives and swords made in Taiwan.
I don't know if there would be a cost savings by eventually shifting that India line to Taiwan, but I imagine there would usually be less time lag in receiving the product in country, since the Taiwan manufactures would be using more modern methods/machinery, where as the India made products involves a lot of the slower to do hand crafted methods and such.
The Taiwan made would also cut down on the more common inconsistencies and/or defects that the India made products are likely to have more of, (which I'm sure has caused headaches for Cold Steel). It's all just a hunch on my part, but now with Lynn not calling the shots, who knows if that switch would be made anyway.
If I am not mistaken, neither of these two new Taiwan made models have yet to make it into the United States.
I'm sooo curious as to how their final execution will be done on these. The Hungarian sword doesn't call out to me... Yet!
But, the Arkansas Toothpick had kept calling out my name... And hence, as I mentioned above, my pre-order for one has been placed 😆

Here is a recent video where Lynn Thompson discusses the new Cold Steel Arkansas Toothpick and does a little bit of pig stabbing and cutting with it 👍😆👍

It starts just after the 10:40 minute mark...

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Taiwan has to be more expensive than India I would think. The increase in quality should be monumental though. I would pay more for the Taiwan if it isn't a ridiculous increase.
 
nephron said:
Taiwan has to be more expensive than India I would think. The increase in quality should be monumental though. I would pay more for the Taiwan if it isn't a ridiculous increase.
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I agree that the labor costs in Taiwan are certainly higher than in India.
But, where I think the cost savings may still come into play, is that in Taiwan they will be using more modern machinery, including CNC, and likely use methods like stamping out blade blanks, rather than hand forging them as Windlass Steelcrafts does in India.
I just think that being made in Taiwan will mean true modern mass production methods, where as Windlass Steelcrafts in India's mass production, is closer to the mass production done in Sheffield England during the mid 19th Century, than modern mass production done in early 21st Century.
So, yes, more expensive machinery and labor in Taiwan, but that also translates into pumping them out much easier, using less time, and using less overall labor.
It comes down to the Taiwan products being manufactured using modern/state of the art methods to achieve their mass production, while the India made products achieve their mass production by still using a lot of old school handcrafted methods.

I know that the Cold Steel/Windlass Steelcrafts made items can be hit or miss. But, I do appreciate the overall look and feel that the handcrafted India made Cold Steel items have when they get it right, a look and feel that can't be faked by a product made by using mostly the modern methods.

I like the quality of the Cold steel made in places like Japan & Taiwan.
But, for different reasons, I also like the Cold Steel coming out of India.
I understand that the India stuff can be much more hit or miss, but when they get things pretty right, they really carry a cool nostalgic look about them 😊

The following video is obviously a type of commercial for Windlass Steelcrafts swords. That said, it does give a good bit of insight into the old school methods that they still employ in their manufacturing of their implements...

 
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I decided to go onto the Cold Steel website to find a contact method, which they do have on there.
I asked if they could give me a ballpark figure on the Arkansas Toothpick' estimated time of arrival. I did also write my full understanding that the pandemic has caused shortages and delays for just about everyone.

Anyhow, this is my first attempt to connect with this new ownership, so beyond my trying to get an answer to my question, it's also a test to see if their customer service even bothers to respond.

I will share here any response I may receive from them 👍
 
Well, it's only been a couple days, but no quick response from CS on my question. We shall see if they respond, or simply blow me off.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
Well, it's only been a couple days, but no quick response from CS on my question. We shall see if they respond, or simply blow me off.
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I was hoping to get a response to my question from Cold Steel by yesterday, (Friday). Well, that didn't happen.
My experience with such things is that if you don't get a response within a few days, you're unlikely to get one at all.
I am one to believe that such details, like responding to questions that customers and potential customers may have, is a great tool for companies if they want to prove they actually have a customer service attitude in place.
A response may still be possible from them, but I now don't have any hope that will actually happen.
In the meantime, I have decided to keep my pre-order in place for their Arkansas Toothpick, although I have no idea of when, or even if, this model will still be released by them. Other than the Cold Steel company itself, there really isn't any way of getting an estimated time of arrival for it.
 
PocketKnifeJimmy said:
I was hoping to get a response to my question from Cold Steel by yesterday, (Friday). Well, that didn't happen.
My experience with such things is that if you don't get a response within a few days, you're unlikely to get one at all.
I am one to believe that such details, like responding to questions that customers and potential customers may have, is a great tool for companies if they want to prove they actually have a customer service attitude in place.
A response may still be possible from them, but I now don't have any hope that will actually happen.
In the meantime, I have decided to keep my pre-order in place for their Arkansas Toothpick, although I have no idea of when, or even if, this model will still be released by them. Other than the Cold Steel company itself, there really isn't any way of getting an estimated time of arrival for it.
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Is there a number you can call?
 
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