I still think GEC ought to make a budget line

Mark, I think most of us understand marketing. We're American and its like mother's milk. whats your point?.
 
Actually, I don't see much of a change in LM's strategy. The Sidekick and Wingman will apparently take the place of the Kick and the Fuse; they might be improving their entry level models a bit, but I don't see any revolution in their lineup. Also, in multitool, "entry level" often means "less tools", no lesser quality. If you go up the LM lineup (Kick, Fuse, Blast, etc) the major difference is the tool selection (apart from titanium models).
Obviously, they know what they're doing at LM. As they know it at GEC. I find it very hard to compare marketing strategis of the two. After all, they sell very different products and target very different buyers.
About GEC making a cheap entry level line, my guess is that they would have to lower the standards of their quality, hence losing a bit of the "top notch image" they have built, and that they want to keep. Also, from what I can see, they don't really seem to need a change in strategy, since they already have a winning one.
Fausto
:cool:
 
I Personally I would like to see GEC go the other way and release a line of super quality semi-custom knives.

I would like them to make a small line of knives approximating CRK quality.
To be able to buy a $250-00+ limited production custom quality production folder would be fantastic and would move GEC into the top echelons of the collectors market; which is more quality and profit driven and less competitive.

Increasing production, lowering quality and reducing nett profit margin is a quick road to death for a small company.
 
Leatherman and GEC have two different markets (pool of potential customers). Some GEC owners have Leatherman tools and vice versa, but the core markets are different, with Leatherman's being much larger and covering a broader spectrum. The GEC market, in addition to being a fraction of the size, is more a niche, specialty market. Quality, defined as materials and workmanship, has been deteriorating for so many products, pocketknives (many, not all) included. Let's not ask another manufacturer that is stressing quality, to lower its sights. If your budget is limited there are many choices available at lower prices, or, simply, purchase fewer knives.
 
I think we should be careful what we ask for. We just might get it.

Some companies have their budget lines made elsewhere.

I don't think any of us want that from GEC.
 
mnblade said:
What do y'all figure was Leatherman's reasoning or strategy in releasing the two models I mentioned in my first post?

-- Mark
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I would be willing to believe that 50% of the GEC owners also own a Leatherman. I do, in fact I carried one of each side by side on my belt yesterday when I went fishing. The flip-side is I would not believe that any more than a tenth of 1% of Leatherman owners also own a GEC knife, or even know they exist.

I can buy a Leatherman tool at Walmart, Target, Dick's, Fry's, Grainger, REI, Sam's Club, Sears, Sports Authority, Home Depot, Lowe's, and probably a few others, right here in metro Atlanta. I bet Leatherman has more products "on the shelf" right now within a 25 mile radius of my house than GEC will make this year. Flip-side? I don't think there is a single GEC knife for sale on a retail shelf in the state of Georgia.

I get what you are saying, and the strategy for Leatherman seems pretty obvious. Give your customer base options at many price points so, hopefully, the guy/gal that came in looking for a multi-tool will find what they need at a price they can afford in your brand. Not to mention built in sales for a new product in the thousands? of stores already willing to stock your products. I just think using Leatherman to question GEC is not a very relevant argument. I'm sure there are passionate people working for Leatherman, but they are, to a large degree, about putting "rocks in the box" (that's a sales term for for large volume national/international companies that only care about units moved for those of you who may not know). GEC certainly has to run their business in a profitable manor, but clearly at this time they would seem to be primarily about the quality, not the quantity.

Personally I would like to see GEC keep on doing what it's doing, and Case and Queen figure out how (or make the investment) to get more consistent quality at their price point.
 
cnas122 said:
Leatherman wouldn't have released 2 models if they didn't think it would make them more money.
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Bingo! But to be more precise, Leatherman wouldn't have released 2 'entry-level' models if they didn't think it would make them more money.

russamurai said:
Mark, I think most of us understand marketing. We're American and its like mother's milk. whats your point?.
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Actually, I'm American. And part of my job is marketing. As to my point, well, my thread title pretty much sums it up. And based on what knifeswapper wrote about his discussions with Bill (GEC), it's not such a radical idea. Not likely to happen, however.

To further explain my POV, a budget line is not something I'd necessarily buy. It's just something that I could see, in the long run, helping the company. It's the same way I think Queen learning how to put an edge on their knives would help the company in the long run. Personally, a dull OOTB knife doesn't bother me that much. But I really don't want to see Queen or any other U.S. producer of quality knives go the way of Camillus and Schrade.

-- Mark
 
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I agree with most here. When I go to a house with a helper (for example) to install crown molding, I get $XX dollars an hour for my time, my truck, my tools, my helper, my skills and ability.

The crown molding, regardless of cost, is a pretty small part of the cost of the overall project. I can easily see that handle materials due to the tiny amount used on a knife are even less of a consideration.

It is all about the labor and what you pay a skilled craftsman. That determines the quality of the finished product. I would be afraid that if GEC cut their prices it would be at the cost of fit and finish. Since the savings would likely be small on changing scales, I would rather see them continue to make fine quality products across the board, and leave the rest of the economy knife market to others.

Robert
 
I've been drooling over the Great Eastern website for a few weeks now. I don't have any yet, but I foresee a Mini Lockback Hunter 720111 in ruby jigged bone in my future...

I like GEC as is; other companies like Case are their entry level, imo. When I finally acquire one of my own, I shall take great pride in owning a Great Eastern and have the confidence in knowing that no corners were cut in its production.

My two pennies for the pot... :)

--Brett
 
mnblade said:
But I really don't want to see Queen or any other U.S. producer of quality knives go the way of Camillus and Schrade.
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I don't see that as being a problem.

Camillus and Schrade were old-school companies that relied primarily on brick and mortar distribution channels. GEC (and others) seem to be very heavily reliant on internet sales channels. I would think that so long as their supply chain costs stay manageable and shipping costs remain manageable, that GEC could continue to thrive by servicing a more upscale niche market.

When I first read the first post in this thread, my immediate reaction was, "We already have mass produced knives from Pennsylvania in the under $50 price range. They're called Case knives." After thinking about that some more and reflecting on what I see (and don't see) in terms of retail outlets for traditional knives is that a) retail knives tend to be in the $50 to $20 range, b) they tend to be made oversees (nothing wrong with that - just noting it), c) they tend to be predominated by tacticals and multitools, not traditionals and d) given all that it's pretty amazing that Case (and Buck) have as much of a retail foot print as they do.

Personally, I think GEC is hitting the right note.

Now... what I think might be more likely (pure conjecture - not wishing for this to happen) is that some holding/distribution company is going to come along with an internet driven pacific rim made cheap knife line (e.g. the new Schrade, Rough Rider, etc) and look to augment their holding with a US top quality name. They may even look to share designs between them? Something like could conceivably happen and it might lead to an offer that GEC couldn't turn down. Please note, I'm predicting or wishing for it. Just seen that sort of thing in every other outdoor equipment space I'm aware of.

GEC (and Queen) are doing great. I'm really impressed with Queen, not so much for the knives, but because they had the business savy to use the internet more successfully. Makes me wonder if Schrade or Camillus could have done the same?
 
After putting more thought into this one I have to say I am strongly against an "economy line". What sucked me into GEC as a company is the high level of craftsmanship and pride in their products. I only want to see knives made in USA coming from GEC. If they were to start cutting corners for an economy line I would stop supporting them. Who is to say the sloppy habits formed to produce an economy line wouldn't inadvertently carry over to the "high end lines".

It makes me sick to see so many companies lower their standards. It is refreshing to find a company like GEC that WILL NOT. I think they are doing just fine with their current business model.
 
Richstag's position mirrors mine.

There are already enough knife manufacturers who offer 'economy' lines and all too soon it can be be 'economy' standards at full prices. I can depend on GEC to make a consistently good knife (I may not be pleased with all patterns but I have yet to be disappointed by machining, assembly and quality on any of them). The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for other famous names, and there will be consequences.
 
I just wish they had a decently priced european dealership so that I could finally justify getting one. (shipping import duty etc is always so high that I've so far not bought one.)
 
You just hit the most painful spot.
It's not really just GEC...every brand here in Europe is way more expensive than in the US. I guess it's not just a matter of import taxes.
But of course that's another problem, and has nothing to do with the company politics and market strategy, which appears to be very clear and pretty good. As I wrote in my previous post (and Kevin widely remarked), I fear that, if GEC made an "economy" line, sooner or later that would affect the quality of the whole brand, and its market image. Which is, I guess, the last thing we want to see.
Fausto
:cool:
 
Why does everything have to be cheaper? Some things are worth waiting for.

Some things are worth spending a little more on, or (and I know Americans hate this idea) saving up for.

You don't see budget Ferrari automobiles, or Rolex watches or Les Baer pistols. There are plenty of cheap things already available.
 
Yup, but when you buy a knife....it arrives and you end up spending another 60% or the original cost (yes this has happened to me) on import/VAT/shipping.....is it still worth it to you?

Sometimes it is to me. Which is why I own 1 Queen knife. I'd like to buy more because I love it and the original prices are so decent. But in total I often end up spending 150% or more on a knife than the original price was. It's just not worth it anymore.

Maybe I'll have someone bring one over when they come over from the states. That always works.
 
I really hope Gmountain was referring to the OP and the actual cost of GEC knives (meaning in the US).
There is no doubt that, for European knife users, it's awful to be asked almost the double of the US price.
The fact is not is the knife is worth it or not. I may decide that, let's say, 160/180 usd (in euros) are an acceptable price for a GEC. But, when you know that you can buy the same knife in the US for 80/90 usd, and that you can ship a box of anything for less than 10 usd, then things change, and we get the upsetting feeling of being stolen from. :(
Fausto
:cool:
 
I don't think a budget knife would work well presently unless they greatly expanded their overall production capacity. Then you get into the issue of "quality" and profit on a unit basis relative to sales comes up. They sort of already make a budget line with their different names that they use. I guess it isn't as "budget" as some would like.
 
After reading what the rest of you had to say, I would like to see GEC just keep doing what they have been doing since 06/07 when they started! It was harder to save for one then the rest but it's worth it, and they are bringing back so many of the old patterns too!
 
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