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Ideal Sword Design
- Thread starter NuclearWinterRat1
- Start date
A large khukri is a Nepalese falcata/kopis as far as I'm concerned.
I look at it from the 21st century perspective. We have guns now. Powerful, reliable, accurate, rapid-fire guns. A large blade which is "weapon only" is dead weight to me. In a SHTF situation, I'd rather settle things with my AR15, AK, or .45acp, and reserve the big blades for when I run out of ammo.
A large khukri fills the axe niche as a tool, and fills the weapon niche as a falcata/kopis in battle. To me, that's perfect.
Hey Tedwca, I wanna see some pics of your falcata & kopis collection.
I look at it from the 21st century perspective. We have guns now. Powerful, reliable, accurate, rapid-fire guns. A large blade which is "weapon only" is dead weight to me. In a SHTF situation, I'd rather settle things with my AR15, AK, or .45acp, and reserve the big blades for when I run out of ammo.
A large khukri fills the axe niche as a tool, and fills the weapon niche as a falcata/kopis in battle. To me, that's perfect.
Hey Tedwca, I wanna see some pics of your falcata & kopis collection.
- Joined
- May 6, 2003
- Messages
- 94
Espada Ropera, "Side Sword", Renaissance Cut & Thrust sword, "Short Sword" of Silver--whatever you call it, thats the one for me if I had to pick ONE sword (NOT a bush knife)
Don't get me wrong; I'd prefer that handle if it was proportionately right for me. I'm making the call on the handle being too long by viewing it on the HI website. The pic I'm referring to is the one with Ferrous Wheel holding it with a Pen Knife in his other hand.
If he's shorter than 5'5", that handle might be about right for me at 6'5". If not, it needs to be about 1" or so shorter.
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- Dec 10, 2005
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I've only chopped some boxes so far. It feels a little different than a khukuri, but is definitely a chopper.
They collaborate on a few projects. I'm not sure what the connection is.
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- Sep 24, 2007
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- 39
Well, to begin with, I did have a chance to put my hand on a grip of a few swords from the Angel Sword company at one of the knife shows (the company's owner is a very nice person and extremely knowledgeable in what he is doing). To my taste they were heavy and not very well balanced - not to mention that their grips were surprisingly uncomfortable: some of them were too boxy and some just did not feel right at all (or was it just because I was not lucky to try their best?). Do they look nice? Undoubtedly, yes! Do they perform well? The company's videos are very convincing (I am talking here about so-called "Techno-Wootz"). Is this a TRUE Wootz/Bulat/crucible Damascus? Certainly NOT! But - does it really matter? The guys managed to make some steel of what appears to be superb quality, which is really good. Personally, I don't like any of their designs - for one reason: too much of fantasy. I prefer a "working horse" simple but comfortable, light and well-balanced sword. As for the TRUE Wootz/Bulat/crucible Damascus - it is a field of discussion with so many spears already broken... Some people follow the Verhoeven/Pendray theory and some disagree with it. I am always hesitant in believing somebody who shouts at each street's corner that what he has is the most real/authentic/true wootz in the world
. And, if something historical is "re-discovered" - why to patent it as Pendray did? It doesn't smell right to me, really... . For a change, I would suggest to take a look at one guy's work who is attempting to recreate original, old-fashion methodology of making Bulat: www.wootz-online.comNope. Looks like you haven't talked to me about it yet. Consider a few facts:
1) The further out the weight is balanced the more useful the weapon is for chopping and cutting. Even extremely small aimed cuts benefit greatly from a little extra mass forwards from the hilt.
2) A further forwards balance gives the weapon stability. The weapon will bite on hard materials when it would have otherwise been deflected. The weapon will not be anywhere near as easily knocked aside by your opponent or his weapon. Losing forwards mass feels a lot cooler in your bedroom swinging a broom handle around than it does when you realize any old geezer with a rolled up newspaper could break inside your guard and stab you in the face.
3) A difference of a few inches can make a big difference both in cutting/chopping ability and stability. If you compare a sword that is balanced at the hilt with another sword which is identical except that is balanced a few inches forwards it will significantly lack authority in any kind of motion besides a perfectly straight thrust.
4) Moving the balance forward from the hilt a few inches with many sword designs will not meaningfully slow down or hinder the use of the sword in the hands of any swordsman/fencer with healthy arms and wrists. The benefits gained within the first couple inches to half a foot (depending on the type of sword) far outweigh the drawbacks (which might not even measurably exist).
The balance of a sword is dependent on the intended motion and use of the sword. For example, a good stabbing rapier will have a great deal of its weight in the hilt. A falcata will not. For general purpose swords intended for stabbing, cutting, and chopping (or even just stabbing and quickly cutting) a forward balance of four or five inches is highly desirable depending on the length and blade geometry of the weapon.
I disagree, but that's a subject for another thread. Either way being the "most refined" does not make a sword any better at tasks it was not designed to do.
Triton
Gold Member
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Seconded. To be honest I'm not even sure what "most refined" means in this context. The rapier guys also claim that their swords are the "most refined."
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I agree with AfterTFD across the board, especially regarding BigFattyT's post.
So instead of repeating what he just said, I would instead describe what a sword would be like if its center of balance was at the hilt: it would be a thrusting weapon only.
I you were to swing this sword in any direction into a target, the impact would vibrate the shock directly up into your hand. If you've ever mis-swung an axe and had the shock of impact buzz up your hand, you know you wouldn't want to do that twice.
With a sword like that, it would happen every time it struck something. As a result, it would fatigue your hand rapidly. As AfterTFD said, you want the center of percussion to be located forward of the hilt, so that your grip is exactly on the sine node, and you feel little impact.
Additionally, if your sword is checked or trapped by the opponent's weapon (or shield if he can find one or simply hitting a wall but missing him), holding a sword by its balance point would provide him the perfect fulcrum for an easy disarm. I don't buy much into disarming swordsmen myself, but the WMA crowd is *very good* at this.
Purely food for thought. My expectation is that none of us will likely use or face a sword in real combat.
So instead of repeating what he just said, I would instead describe what a sword would be like if its center of balance was at the hilt: it would be a thrusting weapon only.
I you were to swing this sword in any direction into a target, the impact would vibrate the shock directly up into your hand. If you've ever mis-swung an axe and had the shock of impact buzz up your hand, you know you wouldn't want to do that twice.
With a sword like that, it would happen every time it struck something. As a result, it would fatigue your hand rapidly. As AfterTFD said, you want the center of percussion to be located forward of the hilt, so that your grip is exactly on the sine node, and you feel little impact.
Additionally, if your sword is checked or trapped by the opponent's weapon (or shield if he can find one or simply hitting a wall but missing him), holding a sword by its balance point would provide him the perfect fulcrum for an easy disarm. I don't buy much into disarming swordsmen myself, but the WMA crowd is *very good* at this.
Purely food for thought. My expectation is that none of us will likely use or face a sword in real combat.
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- Dec 8, 2004
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And indeed such a thread is going on.
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- Jun 26, 2007
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For looks: A katana, or a bastard-type sword, perhaps jeweled or with a wasp waist.
For combat: Arming sword/gladius, paired with a shield.
For combat: Arming sword/gladius, paired with a shield.
European swords as a whole evolved constantly for as long as they still had a practical function on the battlefield (hundreds of years). They might not have had as many intricate details as to how they were forged, but that's only because the iron/steel in Japan wasn't as good as what was readily available in Europe. The Japanese had to learn a lot of tricks in order to make their swords both tough and hard. Furthermore European swords had to evolve much more dramatically and aggressively because the face of war (quality and availability of armor, tactics, technology etc) changed and improved much faster than it could in Japan.
Any samurai who got his hands on one of these bad boys would surely have believed that no mortal man could have forged such a divine instrument.
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- Dec 4, 2005
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One very minor correction - The center of percussion (COP) is out near the tip of the blade; roughly 4"-7" back depending on the sword design. In fairly simple terms, the COP is one of the nodes on the sword where, if hit, does not transfer much of the vibratio energy back to the handle. The other node is typically on the handle where you grip the sword. Otherwiae, the comments about having the center of balance/gravity (COB/G) out from the hilt is correct. On some of the older great swords from the high middle ages (where euro swords had a design to predominately favor the cut) the COG was out as much as 6"from the hilt. This, coupled with the particular cross-section of blades from that era, allowed the wielder of that sword to deliver devastating cuts to his opponent.