if infi steel is really as good as people say, why no close copy?

Maybe you would have better results posting this comment in the Busse Forum? Comparably, when you take a chip out of your 1095 blade - Infi only rolls over and is quickly healed with a few swipes on a Steel.
 
I have heard that sr101 is close to as tough as infi and actually has better edge retention. My swamp rat RMD LE does have excellent edge retention.
 
'skirting the patent' often isn't all that hard .Been there done that ! HT can be worked out close enough too ! But he had to do it initially then find a steel company willing to make relatively small amounts .
He then has a unique steel and HT and certainly has the right to market it successfully if that is what you want to call hype.
I've never had one of his blades so I can't give you details of use. My chopper is a CPM 3V which I'm very happy with though in normal use I may not see all the unique properties of the steel that Jerry Hossom can tell you about.
 
I own a couple and I love them. Mine are both very thin and make great slicers. They are beautiful knives. Good discussion.
 
Let me save you some trouble. I bought in to the hype and bought and used a Busse culti on several animals and it sucked . I am sure it is the most indestructable steel on the planet but it does not hold an edge anywhere near as good as a dozen other knives i own . It reminds me of most run of the mill stainless because it slicks off and quites cutting rapidly. Steels like m4 and s90v with agood heat treatment cut better dull than infi does sharp , but if i were digging out of a high security prison I would pick infi.
 
elkpro1 said:
Let me save you some trouble. I bought in to the hype and bought and used a Busse culti on several animals and it sucked . I am sure it is the most indestructable steel on the planet but it does not hold an edge anywhere near as good as a dozen other knives i own . It reminds me of most run of the mill stainless because it slicks off and quites cutting rapidly. Steels like m4 and s90v with agood heat treatment cut better dull than infi does sharp , but if i were digging out of a high security prison I would pick infi.
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I suppose an INFI rock pick would come in handy.
 
That question and discussion about heat treat and composition reminds me of "Coca-Cola secret" - like only three people in the world at any time have got the key to the safe with the formula.... Ha-Ha-Ha! Why would anybody try to get it - for what end?
Why people think that being a second of the kind on the market is a good idea at all? In the past copies worked because the world used to be much bigger - you could be "Busse" in you own country or geography. But what would be the purpose now? Seriously?
 
INFI is a good steel for a chopper, but I think it lacks in terms of EDC, atleast in my experience. Good stain resistance, fairly decent edge holding and for its hardness, not easy to chip. 3v however IMO is its equal though.
 
I've got a passing interest in Busse. I've seen a couple people mention that it's the "marketing." I really hadn't heard of a Busse product until I came to these forums. I'm not sure what the marketing budget is at Busse but I'd wager their marketing to profit margin is pretty High since I don't see them anywhere and have only heard about them through word of mouth (forums.)

Am I wrong here? Are they paying their customers to post good stuff about their products?
 
No marketing? No hype? From Jerry Busse.


"Busse knives seem somewhat expensive, can you explain this?
"We are certain that the high price of INFI, the extensive heat treating, and never cutting corners or compromising on performance is more than worth the price. Over 86% of our customers own more than one Busse Combat. Over 66% own three or more. We stand alone in the industry in not only making performance claims but backing them up with numerous live demonstrations and a lifetime guarantee that will not be rivaled. When you finally get into the field with your Busse Combat blade and all hell breaks loose, you can rest assured that your Busse knife will never fail you. Unsubstantiated hype has yet to save anyone's life in the field. Our knives do so on a daily basis. Most people will never need the extreme performance capabilities of a Busse Combat knife, in which case there are plenty of good knives to be found. But, if you're one of the rare breed of individuals whose knife could someday be called upon to save your life or the lives of others, and you live in a world where compromise almost always means certain failure, then there is no other choice. Busse Combat knives are the only choice." Jerry Busse"
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Here's to saving the rare breed daily! :)

I like the knives despite this sort of stuff. Sounds kind of mall ninja-ish eh? I'd like to see some statistics that show how Busse knives save people daily.

BTW, The war dog that came out is a very stout, nice cutting bushcraft type knife with a very well done convex grind. The Kin put out very nice knives as well with great steels.

And, Jerry himself states that SR-77 ( really S7 shock steel) is much tougher than infi is. Infi is a good steel like any other that is also good at making knives out of. I like 52100 and 3V better though. These didn't start out as blade steels either, but they are sure good at it.
 
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To be fair to Busse and it's brethren ..Whenever noss would destroy a busse or scrapyard ( no swamp rat yet) they would do way better than all other knives he would break.
 
All this stuff reminds me of the 'Surgical Stainless Steel' knife marketing of the 80's. Companies were (and still are) selling knives touted only as 'surgical stainless' or 'high carbon stainless' but never tell you what exactly the steel is. (cough, cough, Gerber.)
Marketing hype to set you apart from the competition, pure and simple.
Why call a steel "Really simple spring steel" when you can call it something like "ZX-1095-A78.46"
 
wow, thanks to everyone, and i can henstly say i am more confused and unsure than when i started this quest.:)

actually i think i can safely say that that magic in infi steel is the hands that built the knife in the form of high attention to extreme quality standards and a steel that is pretty good and the rest is what it is..... marketing. safe enough assumption? thanks!
 
BigLebowski65 said:
There is a thread on Busse forum that seems to address OP’s question: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/772715-Proof-Of-Busse-(and-Kin)-Superiority
From the little I understand, and as others already pointed out, INFI works well as a big chopper, but as a thinner and smaller knife it can’t quite compete on edge retention with some other steels out there like A2 for example.
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good link, thanks. but part of the reason i posted in the general forum rather than the busse fan club forum is when people are fans they tend to see what they already believe and perpetuate that. having outside visions and eyes and beliefs, as well as fans opinions, is a good thing and helps restore the balance of fairness and reality. thanks for posting and it was a good read and view of video clips, pics, etc.
 
jbmonkey said:
....... part of the reason i posted in the general forum rather than the busse fan club forum is when people are fans they tend to see what they already believe and perpetuate that. having outside visions and eyes and beliefs, as well as fans opinions, is a good thing and helps restore the balance of fairness and reality.....
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I agree, and good for you for starting an interesting discussion.
I also think, had you posted on Busse forum, you would’ve gotten a lot of informative replies as well, old HOGs are a very friendly bunch, I’m sure Jerry would’ve responded as well.
 
The Mastiff said:
Infi isn't really any great steel mystery in the knife industry. Carbon V wasn't either. In case you do want to try A8 (mod) chipper steel it's made by latrobe Spec. Steels. One of those locations Latrobe has a facility is Wauseon, OH. I've heard Latrobe is difficult to work with if you are a knife maker or company not buying huge amounts but a guy came here and stated that Jerry had a relative that worked there, or something similar.

Start with A8 ( mod) , get a good heat treat with Cryo, and triple tempers and you're gonna be there pretty much. Busse fans go on about special 40 hour treatments but if you look around and count cooling, cryo times etc., 40 hours is not any big deal, to be honest.

Infi is a marketing concept just as Carbon V was. Does it make good knives? Sure, but so do lots of other steels done right.

I don't even buy into the whole "infi" thing but even I have a knife or two made by them . They are good knives if you get them sharpened and buy a sheath for them. Not many of them make very good slicers though, which I prefer.
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You mentioned "Cryo" several times; are you meaning that the steel is cryogenically treated (supercooled)? I don't know if you are familiar with Kenny Jarrett, the gunsmith who makes Jarrett Rifles. He is a machinist, and his rifles are famous for being the most accurate hunting rifles one can buy. He makes everything, including the barrels. He just came out in an article and stated that he had consulted metalurgists when he began making his own barrels and investigated the cryo thing, which is popular with some barrel makers these days. All the experts agreed (he says): cryo is hype, period. In his words, you move metal "with heat, not cold, period. Cryo is marketing hype." What say you?
 
pickering said:
You mentioned "Cryo" several times; are you meaning that the steel is cryogenically treated (supercooled)? I don't know if you are familiar with Kenny Jarrett, the gunsmith who makes Jarrett Rifles. He is a machinist, and his rifles are famous for being the most accurate hunting rifles one can buy. He makes everything, including the barrels. He just came out in an article and stated that he had consulted metalurgists when he began making his own barrels and investigated the cryo thing, which is popular with some barrel makers these days. All the experts agreed (he says): cryo is hype, period. In his words, you move metal "with heat, not cold, period. Cryo is marketing hype." What say you?
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There is a huge difference between rifle barrels and Knife blades and what they do etc.

I do know something about rifle barrels because I used to do a lot of serious long range varmint hunting and benchrest shooting with custom rifles using wildcat rounds.

In other words opinions vary.
 
Pickering, You can get higher RC's with cryo on some steels and heat schedules. It's not hype if done where called for.
 
Mf temperature depends on the alloy content, so cryo can benefit some steels that do not undergo a full conversion to martensite until the temperature is brought down far enough. But that still means cryo is no magic bullet for steels that have a much higher Mf temp and little carbide formation.
 
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