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If you are a Knifemaker....then be a Knifemaker

Discussion in 'Tech Support, General Q&A, Site Feedback & More' started by Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Lately, Spark, Karda, and the super mods have asked the members here think about their membership level. There is a sticky at the page top, and they have directly contacted some members. It isn't that they are telling people they HAVE to buy a knifemaker membership. It is that if you are a knifemaker...and you want to put yourself out in Bladeforums as one....you have to get a knifemaker membership. If you don't want to do that, you have to remove all knifemaker related conduct here. That isn't a new rule, it has always been the rule. For a long time it has been ignored, and now the number of registered and basic users not following this rule has become very large.

    What is knifemaker conduct?
    If you have a business where you sell knives, work on them, or sell knife materials,........ then you are a knifemaker/service provider.
    If you have a website that says you are a knifemaker, and sell knives there,.... you are a knifemaker.
    If your user name is something like, "Johnson Knife Works, Frank's knives, Knifemaker61, etc." ......you are a knifemaker.
    If you discuss knives that you made for sale, sold, shows you sold at, how many knives you have sold this year, etc.........you are a knifemaker.
    If your profile says you make knives as part of your occupation info.....you are a knifemaker.
    If you post photos of knives you sell,.....you are a knifemaker.
    If you sell knives, damascus you make, handle and other materials, etc., regularly in The Exchange....you are a knifemaker/service provider.

    If you are a knifemaker....you need a knifemaker membership.

    If you make knives for yourself, and sell an occasional one to a neighbor, that isn't what we are talking about. If you sell a few scales or leftover materials in The Exchange, that isn't the problem, either. If you are in this group, you are welcome to buy a knifemaker membership, and it probably is a good idea if you plan on staying in knifemaking a long time. Sooner or later, about 90% of the folks here will be knifemakers......why not join the group.

    No one will make you buy a knifemaker membership, but if you don't want one, then stop knifemaker conduct and just read and post basic info only. No home page links, no selling talk, no photos of knives you sell.

    The Super mods don't want to have to start checking each home page and profile info, and sure as heck I don't want to go there, but if people post with website links in their signature line and such don't comply to the rules that they agreed to when they joined..........they will soon start to get called out for it.

    I known that this will get a few folks upset, but those who follow the rules probably won't be the ones. It also has nothing to do with someone's content value or quantity of information contributed to the forums. In my personal opinion, those folks should be the first ones to follow the rules, because they are the ones newer smiths look up to as examples.
  2. Frank Niro

    Frank Niro

    Sep 10, 2000
    Well, I am sorry I missed doing this before. I hope I've got it right. Frank
  3. setlab


    Apr 11, 2012
    In other words "shut up or give us money!"
    ten-six likes this.
  4. CJZ


    Dec 18, 2012
    What about people who want to show knives they made, but they aren't selling them? I made two knives, made a thread about it but I have no intentions on selling them. Is that ok?
  5. ron_m80


    Mar 1, 2009
    Anymore than two and you might be a knifemaker. :D
    weo likes this.
  6. zcd


    Jun 6, 2012
    I don't think its too much to ask - the amount of info available to learn from here is just staggering, and on top of that you have world class makers willing to answer pretty much any question you care to ask. For myself, its a hobby, but membership is not a heck of a lot and its worth it to be part of the group. Just my .02.
  7. TLR


    Oct 5, 1998
    What an asinine comment.

    I've talked to Spark a couple of times over the years and I know that he agonizes over the membership stuff and financial issues with this place. I've been here since the beginning and watched it grow and unless he's a complete liar this forum is not the lucrative get rich opportunity every one thinks it is. The traffic on this site has caused a lot of issues and to keep things running changes have been and continue to have to be made. That costs money.

    I have yet to sell a knife for anything over my own basic material costs to friends and family. Not sure if I will in 2014 or not but when my gold membership runs out I'll upgrade to a knife maker. My skills don't yet warrant such a title but the wealth of knowledge and information I've gleaned over the past 15 years warrant the cost.
  8. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    As per the original post - .....If you make knives for yourself, and sell an occasional one to a neighbor, that isn't what we are talking about. If you sell a few scales or leftover materials in The Exchange, that isn't the problem, either.......

    You are fine if you don't sell knives as a regular thing. We encourage photos and threads about the knives newer makers made.

    The main thing that caused this situation is people with links in their signature line, and in their profile, to the home page of their knife selling website.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  9. 12345678910


    Jul 13, 2009
    The home page links issue is an interesting one.

    As a registered user, it's is impossible to add a homepage link to your profile

    It is an option as a knifemaker, but when the membership expires it will remain and needs to be edited out manually.

    I see that as one of the main issues lately.
  10. Robert Dark

    Robert Dark

    Aug 27, 2004
    I have had a website for years. The website is more of a "Look What I Can Do" than it is a place for sales. As a matter of fact, I no longer offer anything for sale via my site. I am not a well known maker and refuse to pay Gargle in order to move my site nearer to the top of their search engine. Even though I am lax in maintaining my site, it is a fairly expensive venture just to have it.

    With that said, I have been a paid "Knifemaker" here for several years. It has been, without a doubt, the best money I have spent. Not only have I been fortunate enough to sell several knives here, I know that if I need information on a certain knife related subject, I can get it here.

    If you sell one knife on this site, you have more than paid for your membership (hopefully, unless you are giving them away).

    Pony - Up ........... You won't be disappointed.

    My $.02 ----------- Robert
  11. Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

    Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith ilmarinen - MODERATOR Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 20, 2004
    Thanks for chiming in Frank. You are a good example of one who is following the rule properly. As you have said before, you don't need the forums to sell your knives, and don't really wantb any more than a registered level membership. That is totally good with Spark, because you don't link to your website home page, don't discuss knife sales, and rarely show knives you have made for sales - and when you do it is in reply to a question about folder making.

    I personally appreciate all you do to add to Shop Talk. Any photos are for information and explanation, not a "Look what I make for the Reno show.." type.

    As I have said before, if a non-knifemaker member is answering a question, or giving info on a technique, there isn't any problem with me as far as posting a photo of a knife they made ( even if they sell that type of knife). What they can't do is post a thread about "My latest knife" or show "The group of knives going to Atlanta",etc.
  12. G. Shahan

    G. Shahan

    Jul 19, 2008
    I agree with Robert, well worth the cost.

  13. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    No, actually its not. I've had to ask new members to remove their home page listings.

    Listen Folks....

    It isn't so hard to figure out that if you haven't paid for a membership, you shouldn't be advertising for yourself via the site.
    Sparks wishes are quite clearly spelled out in the rules. Rules that everyone is expected to understand and follow.
    If you want to advertise your website or make it known you are a paid knifemaker in your profile or postings, he expects that you will do the right thing and purchase the proper membership level to do so.

    I've been asked "why can we enter a homepage if we're not supposed to?"....
    My answer is: Because homepages cannot be disabled for a certain usergroup, they would all have to be disabled.
    Just like the exchange, the site operates on honesty and integrity. It is hoped that members will be honest and not take from the site what they have not paid for. If a member does so, it is staffs job to let them know they are in violation of the rules.
    If you have enough money to buy supplies and have a website as a knifemaker, then you have enough money to purchase a yearly membership here to advertise your business.

    Spark, nor the mods for that matter, want to have to hammer people to do the right thing or purchase memberships in general.
    But we cannot sit by a let people take advantage of Spark, the site and their fellow paid members in this manner.
    Operation of this site is not free, nor is it cheap. Costs are also rising. Spark for many years has taken money out of his own pocket to keep this all going. All that is asked is that members be honest and pay for the priviledge of advertisement and taking orders from the site.

    Now, I'm not going to hammer people with infractions during the holidays. But after the new year has passed I'm going to be reviewing those I've already sent warnings to and looking for more offenders. If you are an offender, you might want to consider purchasing a membership or removing the information from your profile. (if you need help in removal, contact me and i'll show you how). I don't want to have to remove anyones access or account, but people need to take responsibility and not take advantage of graciousness from Spark or the site.
  14. timos-

    timos- KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 22, 2012
    Mine just ran out actually, I plan on renewing , just gotta wait till umm next tuesday. Thanks to Spark and all Mods and members for making this place so great!
  15. setlab


    Apr 11, 2012
    Obviously you didn't read that ridiculous list of stuff that's not allowed without shelling out some cash.
  16. Nathan the Machinist

    Nathan the Machinist KnifeMaker / Machinist / Evil Genius Moderator Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Feb 13, 2007
    I sell here, so I have no problem with paying to play. But what about real makers who don't sell here, but want to contribute? These are some of the most valuable content providers we have. You know, the actual -> content <-. The reason folks actually come here. Is it reasonable to expect a real maker to pay just to grace forums here? Let's think about this for a minute.

    Nobody gives a damn about some hobbyist's second knife. It is the real knowledgeable makers who provide content that is worth anything here. Someone should be paying them. Expecting a world class maker (who doesn't sell here) to pay just to participate here don't really make a lot of sense. If they were selling product and deriving an income from being here it would be different, but most of them are not.

    If a real maker, who doesn't want to sell here, wants to participate please don't run them off. That's small minded. These people are the some of the best people who grace these pages. If the owner of this forum is offended that a few real makers come here and exchange knowledge with the rest of us, then lets talk about what a real and reasonable dollar amount would add up to. I would be happy to sponsor a few makers if it would make the management happy and if it would get some of the real makers back.
  17. Don Hanson III

    Don Hanson III KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Oct 3, 2002
    Very well said Nathan!

    Seems best to just follow the rules and let anyone and everyone chime in.
  18. Karda

    Karda Banned BANNED

    Jun 1, 2007
    No one is trying to curtail participation by anyone. New or old knifemakers.
    There are knifemakers here that manage to participate quite well as registered users, without having a homepage listing or doing any advertising at all.
    A "world class maker" may offer advice and participate as a registered user, what he may not do is advertise his website or business, as that is content that is reserved for paid memberships. It is what adds value to the knifemaker membership. Registered users should not be helping themselves to content that others pay for the priviledge of having.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  19. butcher_block


    Dec 6, 2004
    as to shelling out funds better look around at some other forums and see what a selling membership costs i nkow a few that are 600+ per year and you wil be banned if you are caught selling.
    bladeforum has a wealth of info in shoptalk and some dam fine makers that post to help everyone (worth the cost in the firstplace )
    like was said if your a onesy twosy knife maker thats fine but if you make a few hundred or more bucks a year you need to really thinkabout the membership and where you stand

    wantted to add having your webpage listed in your sig line helps get you found on google (you know building a good rep and internet following )
  20. P. McKinley

    P. McKinley

    Jan 27, 2008
    Oh my.:confused:

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