If you are a Knifemaker....then be a Knifemaker

We need to remember that we all signed up here and did so stating we agree with the rules. This is not new information. We have become very entitled as a society and think everything is our right. This is simply not true. There are a few things I disagree with in the rules, but I signed up here voluntarily. I don't get bombarded with popups and ads when I sign on, which is worth the price of admission alone. My reservation in getting my knife maker membership was that it was pretentious to take that label at my limited skill level. It was the appropriate way to support the wealth of information here. I have a stack of books and DVDs that cost a lot more and are a lot less useful.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
If a real maker, who doesn't want to sell here, wants to participate please don't run them off. That's small minded. These people are the some of the best people who grace these pages. If the owner of this forum is offended that a few real makers come here and exchange knowledge with the rest of us, then lets talk about what a real and reasonable dollar amount would add up to. I would be happy to sponsor a few makers if it would make the management happy and if it would get some of the real makers back.
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Absolutely. Experienced, proven makers have more outlets for sales than they need in most cases, and they are easily the biggest contribution to this website. The management should consider the value they add independent from the monetization of the site; for contributors like Frank, it may be worthwhile to allow them certain liberties, possibly an elected subscription level that isn't quite Knifemaker, but makes sure they never have the worry about being chastised for including pictures in a post that adds value to a one of the knifemaking topics. The fact that Nathan is willing to start a pool to upgrade the most valuable members should make it clear how much their contribution means to the value of these forums. I don't think those users are the target of this initiative but I'd hate for them to withold their knowledge because they aren't clea rif anybody can interpret their help as a statement of their occupation.

-AJ
 
This might be over simplifying things but.....
a knife maker membership costs $75 a year which breaks down to just over $6 a month.
Even if you don't sell knives that is a bargain for the information you find here.
 
It is very simple...

If you use Bladeforums to advertise or sell, buy the appropriate membership.

FrankNiro is a perfect example of a highly respected maker who participates at the registered user level, without problems. He is a valuable asset to BF. There are many other experienced makers who do the same. You won't see any infractions handed out to folks posting tutorials or using pics to illustrate a point in a discussion.

I look at it this way...
ALL knife makers who sell at trade shows have to pay for a table. If you opt out of paying and set up in the lobby, what do you think is going to happen? There are always makers(both aspiring and well known) who will bring a few blades to show off or get critiqued and that's fine. I would be disappointed if the vendors were the only ones to bring in blades(I rarely get to leave my table!). But I do get upset when I see blatant "brown-baggers" with 20-30 knives laid out across a bench in the lobby.
 
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I'm proud to be a paid member.
And when this subscription runs out - I'll get my next one - like I've done year after year.
What I've gained from being a member is darned near invaluable.
Two times in my career I have gone to different well known maker's to learn what they had to teach and paid $300.00/day at both places.
I have learned as much right here for far less money.
Pay up.
 
I'm a blacksmith who doesn't actually use BF to advertise or sell (though there's a link to an old blog in my profile) but there's no way I can justify having access to the wealth of information here and not pay the $6 a month.
Knives are currently about half my income, and I still have a hard time putting that orange tag on my name...guess I'm very much in awe of many of the people whose work I see here.
It's so worth the money.
 
i was a paid "Maker" here for several years but after my "Paid" membership ran out i just continued to post help full information as i could trying to help out the new guys until i received a "Infraction" for violating policy here,with no explanation whatsoever.
i though what is going on i'm not advertising here and have not for years ! turned out the "Link" in my signature was considered "Advertising".
it all left a very bad taste in my mouth, only after a "Mod" pointed out what was wrong and how to fix it was it all sorted out.
My advice make it very clear if someone is not following the rules what they are doing wrong? maybe they don't know like me i'm not a real computer savvy guy.
if you put limits on who/how people can post pictures how can you get tutorials? solutions for the new guys to resolve the problems they are facing ?
how can you ask those with experience to help the new guys if there are roadblocks in the way ? i will always consider this place a "Home" but at times it does not feel very welcome for me to contribute.
 
What is an infraction worth? What does it mean?

If there were no accusations made then you simply got points against your "Blade forums" participation license. Too many points and no more.

I doubt any mod would accuse a maker of exploiting the site, or taking orders with blade forums as the broker for your business without proof.
 
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It isn't so hard to understand that tutorials, help and advice isn't the same as having a link to your business ,plugging your business in your posts or other "advertising" for yourself. I honestly don't see why there is such argument here or why a knifemaker would get bent out of shape by being warned for breaking clearly posted rules. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse, it's every members responsibility to read and understand them....as well as the terms of service. The Mods go out of our way to be pretty lenient, forgiving and listen very well to constructiveness. We try very hard to be fair to everyone and not accuse, warn or infract without clear proof or reason.
 
As an IT professional, I will tell you one thing looking at this from a strictly technical point of view. Controlling content can only be done in a few ways. Either rewrite the code to segregate members from non members that will meet said requirements or go to a only paid membership. Moderating forums is a painful process. I am sorry. Another idea is to have members be vigilant and report such users, this is a more dispersed approach. I totally understand what you are talking about. Hell. There is a crazy wealth of information here that us publicly available, that no book will ever cover. I would charge just for that!
 
I have a question to pose for crew here:

What are you going to do when the problem become rampant enough that Spark finally gets fed up and makes this site pay only?
What are you going to do if Spark gets fed up with all the rule breaking, arguments and such and just decides "enough is enough" and closes the doors?

Just to keep up with the infrastructure issues and expenses is mind-boggling. He already mentioned earlier this year that he might be forced to go "Pay to play" at some point because of the server loading being so high that it will likely necessitate new infrastructure.
I myself hope that everyone will appreciate what Spark goes thru to keep this place going, and not make the mods have to chase anyone down to make them do the right thing. Honesty and Integrity are things you either have ....or you don't.
 
Pinoy Knife said:
turned out the "Link" in my signature was considered "Advertising".

...if you put limits on who/how people can post pictures how can you get tutorials? solutions for the new guys to resolve the problems they are facing ?
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Any link that sends folks to a business site is advertising. It is no different than putting little signs up on telephone poles or dropping cards on the tables in coffee shops. Maybe it just never came to mind but I don't think it has anything to do with being computer savvy.

There are no rules that say you can't post pics for a tutorial or as a visual aid to help someone. There is a big difference between that and someone starting a thread to introduce the newest model in their line-up or posts that confirm emails sent with intent to purchase(Especially, when a link is present in the signature of the registered user, at the time.)
 
i have seen quite a few members trying to skirt the rules in the past. if everybody that wants to keep the forum going without any changes taking place like pay to play, then everybody will need to look out for anyone trying to skirt sparks rules. its no different than if you were in his actual home. you dont pee in the corner of your hosts residence or you get tossed out if you do.
 
setlab said:
In other words "shut up or give us money!"
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I wish you had to be at least a basic member to be able to post here. If that was the case, you would not have to scroll through as much of this type of garbage.
 
bladsmth said:
As per the original post - .....If you make knives for yourself, and sell an occasional one to a neighbor, that isn't what we are talking about. If you sell a few scales or leftover materials in The Exchange, that isn't the problem, either.......


You are fine if you don't sell knives as a regular thing. We encourage photos and threads about the knives newer makers made.

The main thing that caused this situation is people with links in their signature line, and in their profile, to the home page of their knife selling website.
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That is a big 10-4 Stacy :thumbup:
 
I've never sold a blade in my life and only make 1 or 2 knives a year and I've received warnings for mysterious infractions recently too, I have NO idea what I've done wrong, and hell, in the last year I've only posted maybe a dozen times. It really puts a sour taste in your mouth getting warned and a demand to pay up or stop posting when you have NO CLUE what you've done wrong. I mean hell, I've NEVER sold a knife in my life, I'm a pure hobbyist. I dont even have a sig, the only thing I can think is that iv'e been warned for linking to my website with photos from the ashokan gatherings. It's a personal website thats sole purpose is to host photos for other people to browse, bladesmithign, blacksmithing and car shows.
 
darrin sanders said:
I wish you had to be at least a basic member to be able to post here. If that was the case, you would not have to scroll through as much of this type of garbage.
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I wish there was a slightly different term for fan boy when it comes to this topic, it seems to apply nicely here. God forbid someone state the obvious here, it's one thing to ask someone to pay to advertise, or sell; it's entirely another to ask someone to pay because their user name is "Setlab the knifemaker" or want to show off pictures of the knives they just finished. Because god forbid if that knife just happens to be for sale on their personal website. If that analogy is lost to the reader than surly this is a lost cause to debate this.
 
setlab said:
I wish there was a slightly different term for fan boy when it comes to this topic, it seems to apply nicely here. God forbid someone state the obvious here, it's one thing to ask someone to pay to advertise, or sell; it's entirely another to ask someone to pay because their user name is "Setlab the knifemaker" or want to show off pictures of the knives they just finished. Because god forbid if that knife just happens to be for sale on their personal website. If that analogy is lost to the reader than surly this is a lost cause to debate this.
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I understand the analogy you are attempting to make... I just think it is wrong. If your profile name or occupation description leads people to believe you are a maker and you post pictures of your latest knives, that happen to be for sale on your website(that bears the same name as your profile)..... you are advertising. What is so difficult here?
 
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