I'm getting more and more skeptical of GEC knives.

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"or pull knives from stock with no inspection"
IMO, if dealers did what I consider to be their Jobs, threads like this would never occur. There will always be the rare knife that slips through QC but the dealer could stop that piece before it gets into the buyers hands. GEC would be very wise to teach their dealers how to inspect a knife. If it's something like a hard pull, that could be discussed via Email with the buyer. If on the other hand there are obvious flaws that can hurt GECs reputation it would be wise not to pass it on.
I think these folks make the best slip joints on earth, a reputation worth protecting at all cost.

Best regards

Robin

I agree wholeheartedly. I received my defective yellow rose #66 jack from that 'smokey' retailer, and in doing so, I kind of figured I might be getting a returned item or a non-perfect GEC based on the retailers reputation.

The yellow rose 66 jacks have been harder to come by as of late, and seeing that the one I ordered had been sitting there for a while, it makes me wonder if it was a returned item.

Whatever the case, I agree that the retailer whom I bought this knife from should have sent it back to GEC for quality control. Now I need to decide weather to just return it and deal with the 15% percent restocking fee, or if I should send it to GEC to see if they can make good on it. I really like the #66 serpentine jack pattern and I especially like the jigged yellow rose covers, so I think I might write an email to GEC to see what they might be able to do about it. From what I hear, they will take care of these kinds of problems without question.

I do not think that this kind of problem is normal for GEC or their knives. I think a big issue with quality control also comes down to the retailers just as Robin stated in the quote above.
 
Ok I just checked the mail. I have some advise to give, if you get two knives on the same day and one is a case the other a GEC , look at the case first that way you won't be disappointed when you look at the second. The Case knife is nice don't get me wrong it's a Tony Bose swayback gent. All in all Avery nice knife. But the GEC conductor is much nicer. I will edit in some pictures in a little while as soon as I get a chance.
 
Good advice on buying any knife. Manufacturers shouldn't be sending out duff knives, but neither should dealers. To then charge a fee because of THEIR incompetence is disgraceful.

I guess there are many ways to look at all the complexities. But first, a little context to the issues from both sides. I am a picky collector - so I know the joy of getting that knife in the mail and I know the misery of opening up a dud. There is no excuse for getting a knife with a defect; does it happen? Yes. So I will throw in my perspective of a few of the points raised.

Re-stocking fees. These are nearly a requirement to have documented on a website. Not for the good old boys that from time to time get a knife they just can't live with; but for the manipulators that would break the bank sending back knives for reasons that have nothing to do with anything under the sellers control. Most dealers I know rarely ever charge any fees other than what came out of their pocket in fees to get the knife processed and into the hands of the customer. Especially with GEC knives where shipping is built into the price from most dealers, it seems realistic to expect the dealer to break even on a return for something that was not under his control. Now, if it is a defect - his fault, he needs to eat some expense. But in most cases the documented restocking is purely for the protection of the dealer. I have never charged 15% and can't imagine the circumstances which I would. But if someone buys a GEC knife and then wants to return it because "it just doesn't feel right in my hand", I think this is perfectly acceptable but don't think asking them to cover my shipping costs is out of line. But every once in a while a person comes along that would buy 10 of the same knife, then send 9 back and want a full refund. Not only does that take 9 knives off the shelf for a time that other buyers cannot pick up, but it is not fair to the other buyers the have them all opened and cherry-picked thru. That is why you have to have the fees documented.

Warranty. If a factory defect gets thru the QA at the factory - And the defect gets past the distributor and to the customer - Who should handle the resolution? This is a good question and has different answers depending on scenario. But, the factory needs to know what is and what is not acceptable to the customers. This is what the factory warranty is in place to accommodate. It is obviously better for the factory and the dealer if the customer will send it to the factory. Many times, for one reason or the other, the customer does not want to deal with sending it to the factory. If it is a factory fresh knife with a defect, most dealers will gladly take it back and work with the factory themselves. If it is a personal preference issue that a customer has and most other customers would not have the same issue, that makes it a little complicated and the factory would probably be the best folks to resolve the issue because a dealer may have 1 more in stock that has the same preferential issue. My personal preference would be to have the customer send it directly to the factory and I would work with the factory to confirm and resolve the issue to the best of both our abilities. That way they understand customer preferences from the customers. If defects are involved most dealers are more than happy to pay the customers shipping back to the factory.

Pictures. In a perfect world it would be great if every dealer had front/back pictures of every knife in stock. And for smaller dealers that get a couple of each knife and only deal in one or two brands, that is feasible. Sadly if you are not the first or second person to these folks website - you are getting the picked over knife that the others didn't want. Also, many distributors have friends or good customers that get first pick before items even make it to the website. I believe everyone should have the same pick from a pool of exceptional specimens. If it is a requirement that, regardless of what you end up with, you get to pick it from a lineup - there are several good distributors out there for you. My business model simply does not allow me to take pictures of front/back of every single knife that comes thru here. Where some folks get 3 of the same knife if they are feeling good about it; I get 15 or 20. As I go thru them if there are a couple that I wouldn't want to get myself, I roll them out the back door to friends that will take them to a flea market or eBay so folks can view them from every side. I am pretty particular in what I will sell at the price GEC's bring; if it is not a premium specimen - I don't put it in my inventory. Most dealers would be glad to get an email from a customer that placed an order with some criteria of what they would / would not like in their purchase. So, it's not like it's a pig in a poke if you are dealing with someone that knows what your preferences are and has a large inventory to match your expectations. I have 6 GEC pages with an average of 100 knives per page; if I had front/back pictures of every knife I would have closer to 30 pages to maintain (which I do manually, not via some pre-packaged store software). BTW, no customer information (ZERO) is stored on my site or in some insecure co-location facility for thiefs to make themselves at home with.

So, you have to find the distributor that works for you. If a dealer does not have the vast majority of his customers satisfied day in and day out; he won't be in business long. In my old age (I have a 44 year old body but a 70 year old attitude), I am realizing more and more each day that anyone that bases their life on money or profit is miserable indeed. When I started my "Early Reserve" program there were distributors that had negative things to say about it; now they are trying to mimic it. When I started my "Early Bird" section on the website, there were distributors that had negative things to say about it; now some of them are implementing similar plans. You need to realize that even in this friendly hobby, there are those that try to tear down and those that try to build up.

Give the GEC brand a try, give a distributor a try; if you don't like the knife send it back. If you don't like the distributor post in the feedback forum. That is the easiest way to handle both those issues.

But, to be honest, if you go in with pre-conceived notions; you are probably going to find plenty you don't like about any knife that shows up. I have not seen a knife yet, and I have handled a few, that I couldn't find something if I looked hard enough.
 
Well put Mike!

I love that there are distributers like yourself who are not only dealers, but collectors who share in the passion of this hobby along side their customers.
 
Over the years, I have commissioned GEC to make around 800 knives.
So far, and to my knowledge. 4 have gone back for adjustment. There are probably a couple more that I am unaware of. Seems to me this puts into perspective the overwhelming good quality of their production. None of the concerns were terminal and most were cosmetic.

One problem knife can be built into a huge agonizing, whining story, which is plain stupid IMO.
The story of great, beautiful and very acceptable knives is just not news!!
If you use your intelligence to put things in perspective, the story changes enormously.
 
I guess there are many ways to look at all the complexities. But first, a little context to the issues from both sides. I am a picky collector - so I know the joy of getting that knife in the mail and I know the misery of opening up a dud. There is no excuse for getting a knife with a defect; does it happen? Yes. So I will throw in my perspective of a few of the points raised.

Re-stocking fees. These are nearly a requirement to have documented on a website. Not for the good old boys that from time to time get a knife they just can't live with; but for the manipulators that would break the bank sending back knives for reasons that have nothing to do with anything under the sellers control. Most dealers I know rarely ever charge any fees other than what came out of their pocket in fees to get the knife processed and into the hands of the customer. Especially with GEC knives where shipping is built into the price from most dealers, it seems realistic to expect the dealer to break even on a return for something that was not under his control. Now, if it is a defect - his fault, he needs to eat some expense. But in most cases the documented restocking is purely for the protection of the dealer. I have never charged 15% and can't imagine the circumstances which I would. But if someone buys a GEC knife and then wants to return it because "it just doesn't feel right in my hand", I think this is perfectly acceptable but don't think asking them to cover my shipping costs is out of line. But every once in a while a person comes along that would buy 10 of the same knife, then send 9 back and want a full refund. Not only does that take 9 knives off the shelf for a time that other buyers cannot pick up, but it is not fair to the other buyers the have them all opened and cherry-picked thru. That is why you have to have the fees documented.

Warranty. If a factory defect gets thru the QA at the factory - And the defect gets past the distributor and to the customer - Who should handle the resolution? This is a good question and has different answers depending on scenario. But, the factory needs to know what is and what is not acceptable to the customers. This is what the factory warranty is in place to accommodate. It is obviously better for the factory and the dealer if the customer will send it to the factory. Many times, for one reason or the other, the customer does not want to deal with sending it to the factory. If it is a factory fresh knife with a defect, most dealers will gladly take it back and work with the factory themselves. If it is a personal preference issue that a customer has and most other customers would not have the same issue, that makes it a little complicated and the factory would probably be the best folks to resolve the issue because a dealer may have 1 more in stock that has the same preferential issue. My personal preference would be to have the customer send it directly to the factory and I would work with the factory to confirm and resolve the issue to the best of both our abilities. That way they understand customer preferences from the customers. If defects are involved most dealers are more than happy to pay the customers shipping back to the factory.

Pictures. In a perfect world it would be great if every dealer had front/back pictures of every knife in stock. And for smaller dealers that get a couple of each knife and only deal in one or two brands, that is feasible. Sadly if you are not the first or second person to these folks website - you are getting the picked over knife that the others didn't want. Also, many distributors have friends or good customers that get first pick before items even make it to the website. I believe everyone should have the same pick from a pool of exceptional specimens. If it is a requirement that, regardless of what you end up with, you get to pick it from a lineup - there are several good distributors out there for you. My business model simply does not allow me to take pictures of front/back of every single knife that comes thru here. Where some folks get 3 of the same knife if they are feeling good about it; I get 15 or 20. As I go thru them if there are a couple that I wouldn't want to get myself, I roll them out the back door to friends that will take them to a flea market or eBay so folks can view them from every side. I am pretty particular in what I will sell at the price GEC's bring; if it is not a premium specimen - I don't put it in my inventory. Most dealers would be glad to get an email from a customer that placed an order with some criteria of what they would / would not like in their purchase. So, it's not like it's a pig in a poke if you are dealing with someone that knows what your preferences are and has a large inventory to match your expectations. I have 6 GEC pages with an average of 100 knives per page; if I had front/back pictures of every knife I would have closer to 30 pages to maintain (which I do manually, not via some pre-packaged store software). BTW, no customer information (ZERO) is stored on my site or in some insecure co-location facility for thiefs to make themselves at home with.

So, you have to find the distributor that works for you. If a dealer does not have the vast majority of his customers satisfied day in and day out; he won't be in business long. In my old age (I have a 44 year old body but a 70 year old attitude), I am realizing more and more each day that anyone that bases their life on money or profit is miserable indeed. When I started my "Early Reserve" program there were distributors that had negative things to say about it; now they are trying to mimic it. When I started my "Early Bird" section on the website, there were distributors that had negative things to say about it; now some of them are implementing similar plans. You need to realize that even in this friendly hobby, there are those that try to tear down and those that try to build up.

Give the GEC brand a try, give a distributor a try; if you don't like the knife send it back. If you don't like the distributor post in the feedback forum. That is the easiest way to handle both those issues.

But, to be honest, if you go in with pre-conceived notions; you are probably going to find plenty you don't like about any knife that shows up. I have not seen a knife yet, and I have handled a few, that I couldn't find something if I looked hard enough.

That's a great post, Mike. As a respected dealer your input is invaluable. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
 
One problem knife can be built into a huge agonizing, whining story, which is plain stupid IMO.
The story of great, beautiful and very acceptable knives is just not news!!
If you use your intelligence to put things in perspective, the story changes enormously.

This is all true. Whinny stories need to be put into perspective. I have read some that I feel were simply over the top in terms of the issue at hand. But all the same, when you read about the great GEC quality control and overall quality of their knives, a dud does go out the door and that needs to be addressed by GEC. I believe they would and do. The squeaky wheel gets more attention than the one that works perfectly.

I tried to keep my recent "whinny story" thread in perspective. It is hard once it gets immortalized in a thread. If you haven't read it, it concerns the 2012 BF traditional knife. I never really read the "what do you think thread" on the 2012 BF knife other than at the beginning and I believe I posted there or a similar thread as being very pleased with the knife. I just hadn't really looked it over that carefully at the time.

I read threads about Taurus revolvers being problematic brand new. The quick response is didn't you even look at it when you bought it? But I do have a bias that with new stuff, I expect it to work and in the case of a GEC knife, I expect a pretty nice product that has no major flaws and is moderately sharp or at least sharp enough to use right out of the box if you choose to. It is not a custom knife. But not all of those are perfect either.

I have been pleased with GEC's products. I sometimes wonder why I need all of these knives?? I certainly can't use them all. But it's fun.
 
Over the years, I have commissioned GEC to make around 800 knives.

Woo! Didn't realise that Charlie. That's a lot of knives and a lot of history :thumbup:

That's a great post, Mike. As a respected dealer your input is invaluable. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.

Yes, thanks a lot Mike, a very interesting perspective and very well put in my opinion :thumbup:
 
name me a traditional knife company that builds a better looking and more functional knife than GEC and i will start buying from them. no one comes close. hookblade

Better looking? Sure (eye of the beholder and all that).

More functional? I dunno. I'm not at all convinced that GEC makes knives that are more functional than their competitors in anyway. Case, Buck, Boker... heck, even Opinel all make knives that are plenty functional.

Am I missing something?
 
I dont post often, but I have to say that I purchased two stag handled GEC's (a 73 and a 74) within the last month from Knifeswapper and was extremely pleased with the quality. I can tell you from experience that getting a qualty peice of stag sight unseen is more of a rarity these days. I don't know if it was attributable to GEC, Knifeswapper, or both, but I recieved two exceptional peices. I had never purchased from this retailer before and was not a regular customer or buddy, but I cant imaging getting a nicer example of these two knives. I hope this comentary is not a violation of board policy, but I wanted to express my recent experience with GEC and Knifeswaper.
 
One thing that has struck me about GEC, that I didn't like, was that some of their patterns look like they're on steroids. Some didn't have that "flow". A lot of these patterns had the bear trap springs too. They have really come along since their first offerings. Taking my 73 two blade trapper, the one that started the madness for me(saw it sitting in a knife makers shop, on his table, doing nothing, and coveted it, and jumped on it when he sold it a few years ago), all the way up to my most recent GEC acquisitions, single and two blade Tom Sawyer barlows, they have really come ahead in their quality and craftsmanship.

The snap and fit and finish is only exceeded by the Case Bose annual collaborations, when it comes to the world of manufactured blades. Yeah, I've still got two 23's I have to send in to get the pulls "lessened". Yeah, I would like to see them release a premium stockman, sort of like the Buck 301/303 or Schrade 8OT/34OT, in shape. Some patterns I do not like at all, but that is just personal preference. However, if you compare one of their patterns to a Buck, a Case, a Queen, a Boker. They just exceed the quality in all regards. That's just my opinion. I still like some of the patterns from all companies I just listed, but I prefer GEC for their quality.
 
I have no problem with re-stocking fees. I have never returned a knife to a retailer. There are all kinds of people who buy stuff. I ordered a Condor machete from SMKW and they sent me the wrong one. I called and they indicated I should send it back (my expense) and a re-stocking fee applied. I got a little excited about that. I proposed to them that I simply buy another blade and they ship it to me for free as a compromise. They accepted.

I think the classic abuse are people that rent or buy an expensive dress or suit, wear it to the occasion and then return it to the retailer for full refund. That is simply unethicical and unfair to the retailer. I recall back in my college days buying LP's and listening to them and returning them saying that they had a skip or whatever. I of course made sure it indeed did have a defect when I returned it. I still think about this from time to time and feel it is simply unfair and inappropriate.... smartellic college kid kind of trick..... People buy knives on line, fondle them and then believe they can make a decision to keep them or not after they receive them.... hence the re-stocking fee.
 
Twenty years ago I set up a small cutlery business. Our first model was a 5” drop point, which received a lot of publicity over here at the time. We started selling knives just before Christmas, and I received an order from a feller for one with a cheque in payment (this is long before Paypal, etc), but the cheque wasn’t made out properly. I contacted him about this, and the guy told me he’d send another, but begged me to send the knife as it was a Christmas present from his wife. I foolishly agreed. He was a retired MD of his own company, and he’d also approached me about marketing my knives, an offer I had no reason to take up.

Not only did the feller’s replacement cheque not arrive, but when I contacted him, he complained that the knife I’d sent was blunt and wouldn’t even cut paper. I couldn’t understand this as I was present during every stage of manufacture, and checked each one was shaving sharp (these were high-end handmade knives produced in very small quantities). He also said that he wanted a bigger knife and that he didn’t like the design of the sheath. I asked him to return it, and he quibbled about the postage, so I said I’d reimburse him.

I waited, but the knife wasn’t returned, nor did I receive payment. I contacted the guy again, who seemed to think I should send him another knife, a bigger knife, with a sheath of his design (he even sent me a sketch). In the end, after two hours on the phone, I had to threaten him with a Debt Collection Agency.

Eventually, the knife was returned, and I and my two knife makers were anxious to inspect it. I took the knife from the package, unsheathed it, felt the edge, and ran the blade up my forearm. It cut through the hair there like a lawn-mower, the edge was razor-sharp. I wrote to the guy and told him in no uncertain terms that I wouldn’t be selling him that knife or any other. I hope nobody else had to suffer the idiot.
 
Well friends, I ordered this one below from Collectorknives just a few minutes ago. I like big knives and this one most certainly is.

Again, thank you for all the comments. I'm traveling right now in Mexico and will post actual photos and review sometime during February after I return.

View attachment 321818
 
Well friends, I ordered this one below from Collectorknives just a few minutes ago. I like big knives and this one most certainly is.

Again, thank you for all the comments. I'm traveling right now in Mexico and will post actual photos and review sometime during February after I return.

View attachment 321818
I've ordered 5 or 6 knives from them. They ship pretty fast. Hard to go wrong with their free shipping on GEC.
 
The #23 is a great pattern. Its big but the single blade is comfortable enough to carry. Just so you are aware, in my experience (1 slip and 1 LL in Ebony), that run with the lanyard tube will be easier to open than other #23s.
 
IMG_3202_zpsd0b3f3e0.jpg





IMG_2649.jpg


Here's mine...if you like big knives, then you have chosen well! This one is a great knife in hand, and carries well despite its size. I look forward to hearing your first impressions on it...
 
And I thought Chris Reeves affectionados were loyal.

My experiences have paralleled most of y'all's.
 
I am amazed that this thread has actually gone so far :eek:

We ALL know just how good G.E.C is, if you have had a problem with GEC and not happy with the customer service?...you are an extreme minority, and I would probably go back and look at how you handled the complaint :D
The first half dozen or so comments should have answered the op's question, the op has to know by now whether GEC will be his thing or not - surely?

When it comes to complaints, there are plenty of people can get very quirky over something very small, if I pay $100 to $150.00 for a knife, I accept there may be small things that may be considered flaws-of course it depends on what the "flaw" is...Blade play is my biggie, and the flaw other than blade play would have to be rather big to put me off the knife - take for instance small gaps etc, I have owned quite a few GEC,s. and have been pretty darn happy with them.

When you actually break up into labour hours, materials, running costs of a factory, tools etc...you are getting a pretty darned fine piece, one that will last a lifetime ( plus another), for such a good price, I think what we have to be is...to be REAL, real to ourselves about what you have purchased...as stated, if you look hard enough...you will find something...if you are looking THAT hard? ask yourself how much you are paying, looking that hard into a $150 knife and expecting a $5,000.00 custom knife finish just doesn't make sense.

Just buy one, you will be pleased.

Edit:... You have!
Well done, you are going to join the ever swelling ranks of the GEC fan club, especially the choice of that monster!, it will be interesting to see what you think and whether you think you made the right choice!, I would say with the model you have chosen the write-up will be a good one!
 
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