I'm starting to wonder... professional knife flippers?

first I must say I have often read "Quite" and did not understand. The last several post I have read of yours make GREAT sense. You are the same, I am just reading with an open mind. I do see you have background knowledge, so thanks and sorry.

Now my view.. I think this forum is like ebay and all others 95% for sellers. The rules protect the sellers.
1. sellers must purchase membership. As a result they are protected, not allowing non-payers to compete with them.

2. A collector is not a flipper or a mass seller, he/she buys every item based only on what his/her value sytem dictates. not return, not steel, not trend, not mfg, but what he/she wants. now they may only by Casexx, but it is because their mind has locked into that item. And they would buy dog sh*& if it had a Casexx logo. They may only want ATS 34. But because that in printed on their brain as some point.

3. a filpper/dealer and that is what they are, buys for all the above reasons, but hopes that $$$$ is the end result. They like knives, they would be flipping something else. But little emotion is involved.

I am a collector, and because of this, just like sellers who understand trends, and dealers who base purchases on what $$ can be made, I know scams when I see them. And ALL internet sites are full of scam and those only intrested in $$$.

MY ONLY COMPLAINT IS THE SELLER GETS PROTECTION FROM THE SYSTEM AND AGAINST THE NON-PAYING SELLERS COMPETEING WITH THEM. BUYES HERE WHO PAY MEMBERSHIP REC. ZERO PROTECTION. ANYONE CAN BUY AND THEY DO OFTEN IN THE NEW POST SECTION BASED ON WORDS LISTED. BEFORE THE ITEM EVEN HITS THE EXCHANGE.

WHY SHOULD THIS CONCERN ANYONE, MOST KNIVES THAT ARE SOLD HERE AND RESOLD ARE DONE SO ON OTHER SITES, TO AVOID LOOKING LIKE A FLIPPER. SO WHEN A COLLECTOR LIKE MYSELF, DECIDES TO SELL, AS I MUST BECAUSE OF CANCER, THEY LOOK TO WHERE THE KNIFE IS GOING TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT AND THEY STILL CAN AT LEAST GET THEIR INVESTMENT BACK. REMEMBER I SAID COLLECTORS BUY BASED OFF IN PRINTS ON THE BRAIN AND WHAT THEY FEEL DRAWN TOO, IT IS FOOLISH TO THINK THEY ARE NOT GOING TO SELL THE SAME WAY. YOU ARE RIGHT THE GREAT COLLECTABLE KNIVES ARE SELDOM SEEN SOLD. BUT THEY ARE JUST IN WHAT THE COLLECTOR THINKS IS THE MOST PRIVATE SITES.
HUNDREDS OF EXCLUSIVE KNIVES ARE SOLD AND TRADED HERE DAILY, SOME YOU THOUGHT WERE LOST FOREVER. BUT THE GOOD, SLOW, NICE GUYS ON THIS SITE GET THEM, KEEP THEM, AND HAVE THE KINDNESS TO SELL THEM FOR $$$ out of site of the collector. I WOULD LOVE TO SELL ALL ON THIS SITE OPENLY, BUT WILL ONLY DO SO WHEN PAYING BUYERS HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AND PROTECTION OF PAYING SELLERS. WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD BE THE OUTRAGE IF EVERYONE COULD LIST KNIVES FOR SALE FREELY, WHY NOT ALLOW IT ? YOU ALLOW THEM TO BUY FREELY OUT OF GREED.

OK MY SPELLING, GRAMMAR AND TONE IS BAD, A FRONTAL, TEMPROL BLEED AND TUMOR ALLOW FOR THAT. I AM HONEST AS CAN BE, BUT I DON'T PRESENT WELL, BECAUSE I AM MAJOR SICK, VERY SORRY RB BLACK




Quiet said:
That will never happen. Ever. There are entirely too many people with a high level of discretionary income who have no problem with buying something they want, no matter what it costs. Also, don't mistake my comment as jealousy or condemnation of those types of folks, because I AM one of those. But, my point is, there'll always be people who understand that money is just a tool to get what they want, and if you want one of something where they only made so many, you're going to pay what the guy who has it asks. If there's only 500 of some special something made, they're going to pay up. Or, conversely, if they want a knife that's got a four year wait list (like a Randall), they'll buy one from Ebay or another seller if they want one Now.

It's sort of like the ammo shortage we faced a couple years back. Everyone was posting up on gun boards everywhere "OMG STOP PANIC BUYING!!!! YOU'RE THE REASON WHY THERE'S NO AMMO ANYWHERE OMG!!!" knowing full well that they themselves were buying every box of .22lr they could find. So, what they really meant when they were saying it was "Stop buying all the ammo, so I can buy it all!"

Is what it is.
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Whoa. Caps attack. Sorry to hear about your illness, it's a damn horrible thing and I wish you the best of luck.

However, I must disagree with one thing. Ebay is certainly for buyers. They are much more protected than sellers. Buyers can complain and demand a refund for almost anything, and ebay or paypal will almost always favor the buyer, unless it's something blatantly ridiculous. Simple classified sections like the exchange are, as I understand it, pretty neutral, if not slightly on the buyer's side by enforcing rules on sellers rather than buyers.

But I think it still stands that flippers will exist because collectors who want their knives exist to pay flipper prices. Doesn't matter where or how they do it, it will always happen as it will with anything collectible or desirable. I think it's very cool that you have the reverence for your knives to want them to go to good homes, but it's still a cutthroat market out there and everyone does it their own way. I just hope someday I'm rich enough to play with the big boys.
 
The way the exchange rules are written is to try and split the difference between buyers and sellers. For example, if you darn well know you cannot afford something, you have no business posting an "I'll take it" in a sales thread. Common sense right? But it gets better, for sellers if they are not sure they want to sell an item or keep it, they have no business listing it for sale. We don't gauge buyer interest here or test the waters for interest. We (mods) try not to get involved too much, instead we try to guide the discussions when they are being derailed, or offer up our advice on what "we" would do if put in the same situation. Basically try and provide context, make sure the complainant provides accurate, and relevant details, try and get the two parties to discuss any dispute in an open and honest manner.

Unfortunately, 9/10 times the threads that end up in here are due to glaring mistakes made by one of the 2 people involved. It can always boil down to an overall lack of communication. Sad, but that is the current trend.
 
i've seen all 4 knives, that i entered raffles for at TKI, flipped on the internet within a month.
these netted windfall profits much greater than $500ea.

the thing that burns me, not only were flippers entering but they were bringing non-knife family and girlfriends to enter on their behave.
3 chances to my one.
2 of the 4 i was after went to girlfriends who had no idea what they had. i can still hear one of them "ew, what's a Dr. Death flipper? {giggle, giggle}"

it's nice to say join a list and wait,
but i swear the last time i saw the look Tom Mayo give me about joining his list was when i was in high-school and told my father i wrecked his car.
 
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What irritates me more is that people don't care, don't know, or are just abusing the system on BF by listing their &*$%^%#*&^% Mid-Techs in the Custom area of the Exchange. Personal vendetta here, attack me at will!
 
RecalcitrantAmerican said:
True sir, Or it could be simple supply and demand? I would love to purchase knives at maker prices or table, but things aren't going to change unless people stop paying the inflated prices. If we agree to stop paying the prices someone will swoop in above us and snatch these knives up. If you want it bad enough you pay and if not someone else surely will.
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Very true indeed. This issue (and the one about ammunition prices over the past several years) somewhat reminds me of:

[video=youtube;vhMxnGsUH7I]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhMxnGsUH7I&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
I like when people bring up capitalism and that "if dealers do it why cant we"... First, I love capitalism it makes our country great. Second, if you want to make a profit and flip knives and act like a dealer then upgrade your BladeForums membership to a Dealers membership! It all comes down to principle, and I like to think that we are a forum family that help each other and look out for one another...

Just my .02
 
It honestly would be nice if we were a forum family, but when money and greed get involved all that goes out the window. Based on your WTB list I'd be a lil frustrated as well. All your WTB are double to triple the price they should be. Those are some of my favs as well.
 
I don't see what the problem is? Don't like it? Don't buy from them. If it was an unwanted service they would disappear through lack of sales, obviously someone is feeding them.
 
RecalcitrantAmerican said:
It honestly would be nice if we were a forum family, but when money and greed get involved all that goes out the window. Based on your WTB list I'd be a lil frustrated as well. All your WTB are double to triple the price they should be. Those are some of my favs as well.
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I think it's alright for someone to try to make a reasonable profit trying to sell a knife that is in high demand... afterall it is just basic economics of supply and demand. But it's when people try to sell it for double or often times nowadays triple or even quadruple the price (ie. hoback kwaibacks) that really ticks me off.

It's true that if I don't like the price I don't have to buy.... and it really has come down to that. Till this day I still don't own a custom kwaiback because I simply refuse to pay $2000+ or even $1700 for one.

I'm not too sour though since I recently acquired two of the knives I wanted that are normally super inflated for a reasonable price (todd begg ti cf bodega and peter R snafu). I guess this is part of the appeal that I also hate at the same time.... is the hunt but now it adds an extra element of not just timing, but also having it be the right price.
 
Congrats on the Bodega and Snafu....TLO. I love my Ti and FG Bodegas. I've never held the Snafu. I agree on the Kwaiback, but you can't fault the members who sell the knives back at what they paid as is the case with my bud selling his now.

My Bodegas are great...Mark hooked me up with a lil jeweled action to my blade and the hardware after I had spinal fusion. Mark and his bros ROCK!!! My Ti was made as a USN Special.

Bodegas.jpgFGBODEGA.jpgOGBODEGA.jpg
 
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The Logical One said:
they are taking away MY chances of buying the knife at a reasonable price.
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So what? Your desire to own a green Para 2 is not morally superior to someone else's desire to flip that same knife on eBay. You just think it is, because maybe you have an entitlement thing going on. You want something, and anyone who gets in your way is a "scumbag". But you aren't entitled to something just because you want it, and neither am I. Someone stole Kate Upton from me, and Danica Patrick won't return my tweets. But I'm learning to deal with it.
 
I've never posted in a thread like this just because it can be such a nasty can of worms and I'm neither strong nor skilled at hot debates. I do feel strongly about this subject so I'll throw in my two cents. I agree that flippers have the right to flip and the rest of us aren't entitled to something just because we want it. Personally, I will never pay what I feel are inflated prices for anything. If that precludes me from ever having it, so be it. But for me, people, businesses, etc., that take excessive profits, for anything, meaning they are not adding the appropriate level of service or value to the product, exhibit some degree of greed and or lack of ethics - they are not contributing anything positive to the world, which I think we all have a responsibility to do in what ever way we are capable. There, I've said it and will probably end up with foot in mouth. I do consider myself open minded and would listen to anyone that could change my mind with a reasonable argument. Mike
 
This subject has come up a lot in the Spyderco forum due to the popularity of their sprint runs. Some dealers have responded by limiting it to one per person. I think this is a good way to curb some of that activity, at least where limited production runs are concerned. When it comes to customs, its a lot harder. I have resigned myself to the reality that I will probably never own a knife by certain custom makers.
 
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