Imitation is...

[Lorien]

One of the things I like to do when I have a few spare moment here and there, is to look around at the various internet cutlery purveyors and educate myself on design, pricing etc. It's informative and takes my mind briefly away from my workaday world.

Yesterday I stumbled across something that gave me pause. But, before I get into that, lets take a break and feast our eyes on some wonderful examples of Don Hanson IIIs Scary Tac, which he kindly sent my way;





















Now, to get to the point of this thread...

A knife being offered by this online cutlery purveyor that I like to visit, (made by Dewayne Chancellor), is a spitting image of Don's unique folder design.

It could be that a client of his provided the design without him knowing it was stolen, it could be that the purveyor is also unfamiliar with Don's design. In either case, whomever commissioned the knife did so without permission and is as culpable as either the purveyor or the knife maker had they prior knowledge of Don's pattern. Really, just bad form all around.












If you have examples of blatant custom knife ripoffs that you'd like to share, please feel free to use this thread to do so

 

[Kevin Jones]

This should be an interesting thread Lorien even though knifemakers taking liberties with other maker's designs is certainly nothing new.
How many knifemakers have copied Jerry Fisk's Sendero hunting knife design, Bill Bagwell's Hell's Belle, and of course there's an enormous number
of makers whose entire knifemaking careers are based on creating Loveless designs.

Sometimes these makers have asked for permission, however I bet probably most of the time have not.
Is there anything wrong with it? Personally, I feel a maker should ask permission?

Here's a tread I did 5 years ago on this subject, it will be interesting seeing if/how folks opinions have changed.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...Flattery-or-“You-Stole-My-Design”

 

[Don Hanson III]

Thanks for pointing this out Lorien. The faux scary damascus on the bolsters and thumb disk is a nice touch.

 

[J. Doyle]

This is interesting to me also. I have some thoughts but for now I'll say this:

In many cases (not all), the 'copies' are nowhere near the originals in quality and attention to detail. This knife copying Don's is a good example of that.

In other cases, some of the guys making Loveless recreations as ONE example, make knives as good as or better than the original.

 

[Lorien]

here are a couple more pics from Don, showing a properly centered blade

 

[ddd]

As already noted on the Thread mentioned by Kevin, there are many who ask a maker
permission to use their knife designs.

Edmund Davidson is one who even went further, and being Bob Loveless' friend,
he not only asks his permission but also quite often, received from Bob the
actual patterns by mail...

Edmund makes a point of etching/engraving "Loveless Design" on everyone of his
Full Integrals, where their design was inspired by Bob's.

Here are two of Edmund's "Loveless Design inspired" integrals, one of them
is the 100th such knife he created (a fact that is also noted on the knife)...

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

 

[betzner]

Well, this one sure didn't come from China! AND it has the CLACK, that can only be found in one of Don's Scary Tacs. Lorien, too bad you can't compare the sound that fake makes to a real Scary Tac.

 

[betzner]

Duplicate post

 

[Ben Seward]

In some instances makers tastes run in similar grooves. In other cases form follows function. Take Bagwell...a Bowie designed for that style of knife fighting will probably tend to have some similarities at least in blade shape. You'll see some makers, especially newer makers, that are heavily influenced by more established makers. I think knife design is similar to banjo pickin'...with a banjo, your style is a combination of some basic musical phrases with some cool licks you pick up from other players and some that are intirely original. Combined this makes something that is unique to your own expression. The 'Scary Tac' is so distinctive to Don that I think it should at least be noted, especially as close as this follows it in materials...personally I'm not fond of the faux scary damascus

 

[Dawkind]

Always a shame to see these things but, as Kit would say, "It is what it is....".

I don't think, especially in this case, that too many folks will be fooled as to 'It isn't Don's!' but there will be those 'uncleansed souls' that, not having any idea or care about who's design in actuality it belongs to, will think it's a great looking folder.

Needless to say, since many have been posted, this is mine.....scares me!

 

[Lorien]

judging by the look of Dewayne Chancellor's version, and knowing what I do about creating folders, I'll bet that one of Don's knives was physically dissassembled in order to come up with the copycat version. That's a lot different than looking at a thing and 'interpreting' it. Like the difference between copying and tracing. Both are plagiarism, but one is a little worse than the other...

 

[Jon Brand]

There was a straight up copy of a Josh Smith push dagger in either blade or knives annual. It really bothered me. I'm at work and can't find images.

 

[PredatorCustomBlades]

Well I'm pretty new to this so I'd like to pose a question and let the experienced men of this forum make the judgement for me... Seeing this thread prompted this, so I hope it doesn't derail your thread Lorien.

I posted a dagger recently that I'd finished and the design was based mostly on a dagger by Joe Keesler, with some Fairbairn-Sykes influence thrown in there too. I feel like this is my design and not someone else's, but maybe I'm wrong. If so I'd like to know so that I can do better in the future. I don't want to steal designs or copy other makers and if that's what I did I hope someone will steer me straight.

Joe Keesler's dagger:



My dagger:



The finishes and materials are very different between the two, but the basic design seems very similar...

 

[Burl Source]

The faux scary damascus on the bolsters and thumb disk is a nice touch.

Looks like they tried to draw the scary pattern holding a q-tip with their toes.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Well I'm pretty new to this so I'd like to pose a question and let the experienced men of this forum make the judgement for me... Seeing this thread prompted this, so I hope it doesn't derail your thread Lorien.

I posted a dagger recently that I'd finished and the design was based mostly on a dagger by Joe Keesler, with some Fairbairn-Sykes influence thrown in there too. I feel like this is my design and not someone else's, but maybe I'm wrong. If so I'd like to know so that I can do better in the future. I don't want to steal designs or copy other makers and if that's what I did I hope someone will steer me straight.

Joe Keesler's dagger:

View attachment 483827

My dagger:

View attachment 483828

The finishes and materials are very different between the two, but the basic design seems very similar...

Personally, I wouldn't call that a "copy" but more a similarly designed dagger or your rendition of Joe's dagger.

 

[Lorien]

they say there is nothing new beneath the sun, and perhaps they are right.

If you have ripped off someone else's design, you are quite likely a thief, and a thief always knows he is a thief.
If you are inspired by the work of others, such that characteristics of their work imbue yours, that's borrowing.
It is always morally correct to ask before you borrow something, but if you don't that's not necessarily the same as stealing.

I could probably have said that better, I hope you caught my drift.

 

[AVigil]

Whenever I see threads like this I think of Michael Walker. I remember when he came out with the liner lock and now it is such a common design in knives people use it without a mention of the man who invented it.

 

[Tad Lynch]

That is so ridiculous its funny!!! It is stealing, but it's funny. The only reason I can say that is that there's no way that knife is gonna take away from Don's business. I'm shocked there's not a little poorly scribbled sunfish on the blade or a fake hamon.

Tad

 

[Kevin Jones]

That is so ridiculous its funny!!! It is stealing, but it's funny. The only reason I can say that is that there's no way that knife is gonna take away from Don's business. I'm shocked there's not a little poorly scribbled sunfish on the blade or a fake hamon.
Tad

You got a chuckle out of me.

 

[W.M.B.]

I vaguely remember, I believe it was Johannes Brahms, when he wanted to write a symphony, took a symphony by Schumann, (if I remember correctly), and scored his to match, same number of measures, modulation in the same places, the structure was the same. The themes were different, but he needed a pattern to follow, he was not yet confident to go it on his own intuition. That is how you learn. I have no problem with it, as long as they do not try to pass theirs of as someone else's work. I.e., counterfeiting.