Imitation is...

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That bolster kills me. lol.

I understand getting inspiration from other people's work. I'm inspired by a lot of makers work and a part of me would like to try to remake a few. Mainly, in honor of them. Like Bob Loveless, John White, and Hill Pearce. The only reason I don't is because at the moment I can't do their work justice. I would also make a point to say that it is in honor of them, not to make money off them.

That's just me though. I also get messages daily from people informing me that they are remaking my work and plan to continue doing it. At first it really annoyed me, but now I don't even care. What really kills me is when they try to promote their work by using me. And I love helping other makers in whatever way that I can. So the annoyance passes rather quickly. Plus I know the people that buy my stuff are buying me and are there for me.

Don's work beats this hands down and the guy who is trying to imitate him probably lost more clients than he gained from doing this. But, to each their own. :D
 
W.M.B. said:
I vaguely remember, I believe it was Johannes Brahms, when he wanted to write a symphony, took a symphony by Schumann, (if I remember correctly), and scored his to match, same number of measures, modulation in the same places, the structure was the same. The themes were different, but he needed a pattern to follow, he was not yet confident to go it on his own intuition. That is how you learn. I have no problem with it, as long as they do not try to pass theirs of as someone else's work. I.e., counterfeiting.
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I agree and I have pulled elements that I like from makers and used them, but never copied anything like this maker did. I mean even the scary mokume and the clip and the ivory just scream rip off.
 
Here is the push knife I spoke of. Josh made the first three which I think are beautiful. BTW there are a few others out there that probably wont be seen but there is ALOT of copying around.

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While not an exact copy but pretty close, seeing this one especially with MEDIA/PRESS really bothered me.

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You ever have a buddy say, "make me a Ka-Bar," or "make me an Old Timer!" Maybe his friend said, "make me a 'scary tac!'" :D
 
This is a well-known subject in every area of skill and style. Once you develop a 'look' which is your signature, and it's open to the world, well...... watch what happens.

Unless there is a copyright or registration (and only big money can do that) the flattery begins! That's OK. Just do it better.

In the case of the Scary Tac, after I calmed my rolleyes :rolleyes:, then my laughter :p, I actually thought the bolsters were cleverly etched. Bold!

Coop
 
Chuck Gedraitis Knives said:
Jon,
Josh's push daggers are clearly influenced by Larry Feugen, was Larry even given the credit for his influence?
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Chuck, I believe there's a huge difference from being influenced by another maker's work than trying to create a "COPY' of another maker's work like in the case of Don's Scary Tac and the above Royer Bowie.
 
Kevin, you stepped right up to the line with that one. Which came first…..the chicken or the egg?? What is the the time line on those two pieces?? Who copied who?

Ron has demonstrated time and time again with his innovations that he doesn't need to copy anyone. I have watched Kyle progress nearly from his beginning. His progress and talent is nothing short of amazing. He will be a super star we all will remember……………but his earlier works came very close to being copies of John White and Don Hanson, both of whom played a large role in helping him along, therefore making his work reflect that. Both John and Don gave that help freely and helped push Kyle along and now it is was it is….Kyle is great!

I also notice that the sheath which Kyle made himself bears more than a slight resemblance to something I would have and have done right down to the take down tool papoose. I am flattered that someone of Kyle's ability chose to do that, and I encourage him to do it more.

Now I don't even know who made the knife that is the original subject of this thread but I bet it's not his first knife and it probably won't be his last and as long as he doesn't call it a Don Hanson I don't see anything except a guy saying through his work,………"I hope one day to be as good as Hanson"

We all had to start someplace and under the direct influence of someone or many we admire.

Paul
 
sheathmaker said:
Kevin, you stepped right up to the line with that one. Which came first…..the chicken or the egg?? What is the the time line on those two pieces?? Who copied who?

Ron has demonstrated time and time again with his innovations that he doesn't need to copy anyone. I have watched Kyle progress nearly from his beginning. His progress and talent is nothing short of amazing. He will be a super star we all will remember……………but his earlier works came very close to being copies of John White and Don Hanson, both of whom played a large role in helping him along, therefore making his work reflect that. Both John and Don gave that help freely and helped push Kyle along and now it is was it is….Kyle is great!

I also notice that the sheath which Kyle made himself bears more than a slight resemblance to something I would have and have done right down to the take down tool papoose. I am flattered that someone of Kyle's ability chose to do that, and I encourage him to do it more.

Now I don't even know who made the knife that is the original subject of this thread but I bet it's not his first knife and it probably won't be his last and as long as he doesn't call it a Don Hanson I don't see anything except a guy saying through his work,………"I hope one day to be as good as Hanson"

We all had to start someplace and under the direct influence of someone or many we admire.

Paul
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Paul, Kyle made my Ring Guard Bowie in Oct 2009 per my concept and initial design drawing. See a related BF thread addressing such:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/666657-Need-a-little-HELP-on-a-Design-Please

Ron made the Ring Guard Bowie shown above in Mid 2013 for a client.
 
How...what are the words? Blatant, infuriating, pathetic, premeditated, piss thin, weak, sad, limp...let me stop.

Emotional responses to the side. Although there is a school of thought that subscribes to the notion that there are no truly new ideas, the Scary Tac is a Hanson signature design. To attempt to plagiarize the style, all the way to the mosaic scary steel, is an outrage. The shape of the blade and handle on this "thing" are a tracing paper template. Oh, and I would be remiss not to mention the final frontier of infringement, what I've joked about with Don when discussing this design...the Star Trek U.S.S. Enterprise thumb disk. I love it because it is cool and isn't a Spyderco hole punched through the blade. Whoop, dere it iz!

There are so many attempted design rip offs. My hope is that purveyors would not represent such products.
 
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The fact that I am a DH III groupie probably adds a level of bias to my response above :grumpy::D:mad:
 
NickWheeler said:
So how do you guys feel about this then??? ;) I think a quick inspection would clear up which came from where...but I think this fits well into Lorien's thread. ;) :)

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1226462-BOWEI-Black-Shark（2014-10-10）

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How I feel about this is the adage: "Imitation is the greatest form of flattery." However, it never hurts to ask a maker for his permission. In the past, I've asked Bruce Bump, Sam Lurquin, Joe Keesler, and some others, permission to use their designs.....it's just good manners. I've had other makers ask for my permission to copy some of my designs - I'm flattered when they do it. When they don't ask, it annoys me a bit, but is life fair? If life was fair, earthworms wouldn't be eaten by robins. I try to get over it and move on.

Now, in instances where the maker doesn't ask permission, or doesn't indicate who inspired the knife (e.g., Loveless Inspired), I personally believe it's bad manners. But, some fellas just starting out might not know any better - I sure didn't when I first started out five years ago as a 90% self-taught maker.

Back to fairness: I'm dead certain you knowledgeable collectors/purveyors out there won't pay $2,000 (or more) for this Wheeler/Long spinoff, or $5,000 (or more) for a Don Hanson III or Kyle Royer spinoff, so, it all evens out in the end. The collector/purveyor won't pay big money for the spinoff, and the offending maker doesn't get paid big money for his spinoff. Therefore, no harm, no foul.

Finally, I agree with Paul Long: "We all had to start someplace and under the direct influence of someone or many we admire."
 
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This gets your attention, for sure. The site list the maker's name and the specs on the folder. Titanium bolsters, titanium liners, titanium thumb disk, carbon steel blade. Plus, the same maker has two nice looking slipjoints listed there. Once again, nothing very specific on materials, 'carbon steel blade', etc. The only information provided about the maker is that he has been making knives since he was 13 y.o. Nothing else on-line shows up about the maker, that I can find.

I would like to know what materials and quality of work I am buying when I buy something that is suppose to be 'custom'. Would be nice if something like that was provided by the purveyor.

So, my questions would be, how are these made, where are the 'parts' from, and why are the knives listed where they are? It states they are new from the maker, but have slight handling scratches. That raises a red flag.

If these are all straight from the makers shop, more power to him, I guess. But, show some manners in who you want to emulate. They look too nice in the photos to be his first knives offered on-line.

It is good as a collector to see threads like this. Thanks, Lorien. I can see your interest as a designer. The more we know about what is out there, the more selective we can be on buying, especially from the secondary market.

- Joe
 
Loveless, Moran and Bose all freely gave their talent, designs and expertice. Follow their example and take this stuff as humor. I've seen Hanson's early work and his designs were "copies" as well. There is just only so much "originality" you can sqeeze into a sunfish or remington bullet pattern :)

What i think is funny is where people don't realize something is unique. They call Bose's Lanny's Clip or Zulu "traditional" but they are his. He's just got so many imitators, and he gives away the patterns, people forget they might be slipjoints, but the pattern is his, a new "tradition".
 
I think this thread is being misunderstood. Its not about influence of design its about direct copies of a particular work. At least I think thats what Lorien is talking about.

Chuck, I have heard Josh Smith credit Larry Fuegen for his influence on these pieces and they are good friends who roomed together for many shows.. but I understand people on the outside may not have heard that and may only see what you mentioned. The knife I posted looks like a copy however, amd NOT a knife that was just influenced by the original. Josh didn't make push knives that were exactly the same as Larrys, he made his own designs although the Fuegen influence is STRONG in every piece.

I've seen MANY Pakistani copied of the Crawford Kasper folder on Ebay and wish I saved the images.\

Alot of makers try to do what Paul Long does. Paul has a video on this so I wouldn't scorn anyone for copying his style. Paul shares his knowledge and although I haven't seen the video I assume the sheaths he demonstrates building have his trademark style.
 
I have an entire folder on my computer dedicated to Hancock fancy hunters made by other makers. I love these and have an order for one. All of these makers Credit Tim with the design and influence. Nothing wrong with that. I think it will go down as a classic design in the future which we will see more of. Makers include Todd Kopp, Mike Quesenberry, Mike Ruth Jr., Tommy Gann and Joel Chambin.
 
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