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Imperial Cuchilleria hecho en Mexico=Imperial Cutlery made in Mexico

Discussion in 'Schrade Knives Collectors Forum' started by Larry303, Oct 11, 2007.

  1. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    I have in my IMPERIAL SCHRADE blade collection, 22 'Salesman' Examples from the Schrade Conference Room Wall. .<SUBSEQUENT INFO STATES THEY WERE IN THE SCHRADE FACTORY ROOM SAFE READY TO BE DISPLAYED HOWEVER WERE KEPT INTACT FROM THE SCHRADE BANKRUPTCY SALE DUE TO THEM STILL REMAINING IN THE SAFE>..All tang stamped Imperial Hecho En Mexico or Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico....
    I know there was previous discussion without real conclusion regarding Imperial <Schrade> foray into Mexico production in the 1950's...
    Larry Vickery sent me a photo ,of the Messrs. Baer,Mirando,Fazanno meeting in Monterey Mexico dated 1946....
    Is there any update of their Monterray, Mexico meeting, and consequent production of these knives? There appears to be a number of different patterns in this group.
    I doubt Schrade would have intended to display them on "the factory wall" if they had not had significance to the total Imperial Schrade timeline story.
    It raises the questions what year they were made and did they make it to full production or were these more or less representative of a perhaps failed attempt at cheaper production costs in Mexico. Why would they be salesmans examples if there was not the stock to sell?. Any thoughts? Hoo Roo
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  2. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    I guess nobody has any idea in which years Imperial had a factory in Mexico or even when it closed? Hoo Roo
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  3. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Larry, I have theories about the origins and timeline of the Mexican Imperials, but theory is all it is. I have several of those knives. And since I first saw them, I've looked for answers to no avail. We know that Baer and the Mirandos were international players. From way back. Both delt with importing foriegn made knives and exporting American made knives. From what I can tell so far, Boker is the only knife maker of any size to do manufacturing in Mexico. The Imperial knives may have been made as a cooperative effort by Boker there. I have no evidence of that. I know that when injection molding came to this country from Europe, it came via Mexico to circumvent a ban on importation of the machinery by the company which had a virtual monopoly on the powder and the technology. It was a company renowned for sunglasses that managed to start molding here, via a startup in Mexico. The principal of that company was a friend of Albert Baer. We know that But these puzzle pieces are all I have for the time being.

    Michael
     
  4. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    G'Day, Further to above post ,the Mexican Imperials arrived for my Imperial Schrade bladeware collection, together with the cardboard box in which they were found in the Schrade factory room safe.It has been clarified by the person who removed them that they were not displayed on the wall as I assumed and were merely packed in the box in the factory room safe. The box is hand printed IMPERIAL MEXICO.
    There are 22 entirely different individual patterns.Some tang stamped 'Imperial Mexico' and others 'Imperial Hechs En Mexico'. Differing scale materials as well. They have individual Dymo red tape numbers on scales by way of identification,as perhaps a salesman would mark them. For example a single pen blade 3 1/4" unopened stainless steel with both SS.scales inscribed with a Gaucho complete with sombrero and rope in hand has the designated number 9002.Various numbers on knives 5211-P,5001-P,5003-P, 5301-P,5204-N,5310-N 5212-N,5401-N, etc..There is 6 3/4" open double blade with the Stag head design typical of the Imperial USA Stag Head fixed blade series and folders.6 have vintage style shields on scales.


    All are in absolute Mint condition.They undoubtedly have age to them and of styles reminiscent of the 60's/70's Schrades and Imperials. They are reasonably well made with regards materials and walk and talk and snap.


    Submitted to stimulate interest or evoke knowledgeable comment, on their possible origins/provenance. Hoo Roo from Downunder.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  5. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Interesting! I'd like to see a few close up pictures of them if possible.

    Perhaps some day we can get the rest of the story on these. The one person I can think of who could give a definitive answer on the "Hecho En Mexico" knives is not accessable to me. Maybe Eric or someone else local can ask and get it from him.

    Michael
     
  6. thawk

    thawk

    Oct 28, 2006
    I'd like to see some close up pictures, por favor. I kind of remember seeing this listing, and the pictures were not very big.
     
  7. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    Michael, Its interesting that Goins' Encyclopedia of Cutlery Markings page 138 under Imperial knife Company trademarks which set out the various trademarks they used like 'Old Timer', 'Frontier' 'Imperial-Crown' 'Imperial Ireland' it lists " Imperial Mexico" which would indicate a definate Imperial Mexico connection.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  8. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    I have seen it explained why this forum does not take paypal. It is because they are not a gun friendly company, but quite the opposite. Everyone draws their lines in the sand over issues important to them, and the owner of this site has chosen to not support anti-gun companies. I understand and honor this. You could however pay for your membership with an International money order. Alternately or in the meantime, try hunt101.com . Free, easy to sign up, and easy to post pictures here with their web hosting in your own gallery there.

    John Goins created a monumental and important work with his books and the information is as was to the best of his knowledge at the time of publication. But they are filled with errors. I would not take his notation about Imperial Mexico without a measure of salt.

    Michael
     
  9. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    I quote a most reliable source..."Around 1958 or thereabouts Mr Baer and Joe Foster Grant of THE SUNGLASS CO went to Monterey Mexico and they purchased this knife factory in a venture of making knives for Sears Robuck <sic> but it was short lived as the Mexicans 'stole the doors off the place' and were rolling grinding wheels around.They could not get rid of it fast enough and was very short lived."

    Could these Mexican Imperials be the first examples of injection moulding as you describe above with the new technology having arrived in Mexico from Europe. These knives would be 50 years old with this timeline.Could the 'designated numbers' align with Sears?
    It would appear Schrade didn't have a lot of luck/success with their International ventures perhaps because the Baers' could not be present to personally oversee operations as in Walden and Ellenville.Remember how they were all appalled to find the employees at Sheffield's IXL Wostenholm kicking soccer balls around the factory floor after they had purchased it and that venture was short lived!
    At least the Mexican venture could have provided the experience they needed with the injection moulding which was introduced at Providence R.I.?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  10. Mountainwind

    Mountainwind

    978
    Mar 13, 2006
    Hey Larry, if you read this, send me an email.
     
  11. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    G'Day Mountainwind, I see you're still on line mate. I just sent 37 photos of the Mexican Imperials to Michael which I trust he will show a few. 4 different tang stampings...... Hoo Roo
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  12. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    Cuchilleria Imperial Mexico is Imperial Cutlery Mexico. It will take me a bit to post pictures. Larry (lrv) might import them to his collector's site in a special page easier and in more detail.

    The crown mark was not unusual in the 1950's. It can be seen most clearly on the fixed blade illustrations of the 1959 Imperial catalog om Larry's site.

    Michael
     
  13. Codger_64

    Codger_64 Moderator Moderator

    Oct 8, 2004
    http://www.collectors-of-schrades-r.us/Mexican Imperial/index.htm

    Here is the link to the Imperial Cutlery Mexico page on Larry's Collectors of Schrades site. Thank's Mr. Vickery!

    And thank you Aussie Larry for sharing with us! With your help, we'll keep tinkering and poking until we can flesh out the story just a bit more for posterity.

    Here is one of my Imperial Mexico knives.

    [​IMG]

    Michael
     
  14. Timstools

    Timstools

    621
    Jan 5, 2007
    Larry
    i had trouble download pics to my photobucket hosting site but i was trying to use dial up.
     
  15. Timstools

    Timstools

    621
    Jan 5, 2007
    Here they all are, at last, all 36 of Larrys Mexican Schrades.
    Regards Tim

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  16. Timstools

    Timstools

    621
    Jan 5, 2007
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  17. Timstools

    Timstools

    621
    Jan 5, 2007
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  18. Timstools

    Timstools

    621
    Jan 5, 2007
    [​IMG]
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    Cheers
     
  19. Larry303

    Larry303

    Jul 28, 2005
    Deleted post.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015

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