Impressive heat treat and edge durability

M

MichaelMyers

Joined
Dec 10, 2015
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235
Only 10 dps and no damage from chopping bone. Other vid show him whittling and chopping nails with no damage to the edge as well. Too bad he doesn't use better steels like CPM 3V or M4.

[video=youtube;vpis1bURfdI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpis1bURfdI[/video]

[video=youtube;fGUneO4TypU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGUneO4TypU&t=17s[/video]
 
Yeah, very lighthearted wacks into bone and nail will not cause much damage. Doesn't tell much about the edge or the steel or the HT.
 
Cobalt said:
Yeah, very lighthearted wacks into bone and nail will not cause much damage. Doesn't tell much about the edge or the steel or the HT.
Click to expand...

I have experienced chipped blades from contact with hard bones. Likewise I have chopped with a variety of production knives. Any contact with a nail or even gritty wood would almost always result in some form of edge roll or chip. Definitely won't be able to slice paper workout snagging after that. So yes that tells alot about the heat treat.
 
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Know nothing about this maker, but it says a little about what he is trying to achieve. Not proof but he is trying.

Bone to me does the damage when a blade is chopped into it hard, not cut. Bone is catastrophic when it somehow grabs a part of steel and yanks it out, sometimes a whole lot more! Difficult to explain but bone is both hard and elastic. Tends to find fault when steels are HT too hard and the stock too thin. Tapping isn't the test.

Nails, all depends on how hard they are, there are some pretty soft nails out there. Not a bad test and always nice if a blade can do it without sustaining much damage.

So from the vids it doesn't prove much but nice the maker is at least trying to prove a point.
The custom makers who enjoy testing "the metal" are the more interesting to me. Some custom makers are more into "the making" and fine "making" they can do too. A very few do both way beyond whats called for. Most factory knives follow a steel system of manufacture and the rest is the tolerances of their machinery. They want consistency to replicate it again and again. The better get a most useful result, but are never going for the pinnacle of what might be possible as that would be too risky.
The vast majority is absolutely fine. Those that go the extra mile are the pioneers and so get my vote even if I can't buy into them not having the funds to do so. But thats my problem, just pleased someone is trying.
 
I agree not absolute proof of anything. But I occasionally get chipping on my production kitchen knives from contacting wet bone while cutting meat not hard chopping. He chopped on dried bones with a ring to it. Nails are mostly low carbon steel and unhardened but hard enough to dent the sharp edge of most production knives with accidental contact in my experience. That he deliberately chops and whittle them then follows by slow slicing newsprint is telling something. I don't see many makers do that.
 
MichaelMyers said:
I have experienced chipped blades from contact with hard bones. Likewise I have chopped with a variety of production knives. Any contact with a nail or even gritty wood would almost always result in some form of edge roll or chip. Definitely won't be able to slice paper workout snagging after that. So yes that tells alot about the heat treat.
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Maybe you have. I can tell you that not one blade I have would have had any damage with the baby wacks that were done in your vids. Those vids prove nothing. I am just being truthful with you after having done seriously hard use for two decades. This is how you tell if there will be any damage to your blade when chopping bone. Not my vid

[video=youtube;Oi0mt9NmE80]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi0mt9NmE80[/video]
 
Dry bone goes brittle and easier to crack it, can use the spine for that. Wet bone is far more elastic and causes far more problems both to an edge and the blade as a whole; depends how you are attacking it. Bone can find the "no more luck left" in a knife.

I admire Busse blades and they have the steel, the heat treat and build for a what they are. What they are is a specialised tool built not to fail and the heft to take on anything. They have a lot of steel in them and plenty behind the edge, which is a positive to being tough as heck; but I've yet to find one that I would want to work with. Just too much of a good thing makes them too unwieldily for me. I can give up a lot of bullet proof tough as heck for more utility. Others have a different take.

What is interesting is the older steels are now better from all the work gone in to testing them and finding what really works to get the best out of them. People now exude the virtues of steels that have been around for yonks. So much is not the steel but what is done with it.
 
It's not even about busse, it is more about how you chop bone. I have processed an entire Elk bones and all with no issue. Includes splitting knuckles and hacking the larger bones. Sometimes you get some edge rolling. My point was that in the OP's vids the wacks were just to light to really tell anything about the HT. If you wanna stress the HT you gotta hit hard.
 
Agreed.
I'm no butcher who works with bone a lot. They work around bone and seem to do fine. A softer edge for meat are more bone proof. Thing is we want it all for all materials, so thats when the fun starts.


I also don't actually want to diss Busse as I admire them for what they are. If I could find a use then I'd have one, just don't fit with what I do.
 
Cobalt said:
Maybe you have. I can tell you that not one blade I have would have had any damage with the baby wacks that were done in your vids. Those vids prove nothing. I am just being truthful with you after having done seriously hard use for two decades. This is how you tell if there will be any damage to your blade when chopping bone. Not my vid

[video=youtube;Oi0mt9NmE80]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi0mt9NmE80[/video]
Click to expand...

Nice chopping but doesn't show him slicing paper as proof of edge condition
 
I would guess that after that amount of chopping, the edge might need a bit of touch-up due to the hardness of the bone & local impact to the edge. I would like to see the original vid's chopping of the bone this way (hard, solid whacks) & the edge slicing paper afterwards. The condition of the edge after this type of use would tell us a lot more about the HT, edge & toughness of the blade in general.
 
Perhaps what is shown in those vids are nothing special and any regular quality knife can do the same. So I am hoping someone here can show me their knives clean slicing newsprint after making several shallow notches on a steel bolt.
 
Or tell me wjere u got it.

Or better yet. Chop some nails in half. That has been done with vids online.
 
0.2mm / 0.008" behind edge thickness(BET) is quite thin. Compare to 0.0125" BET (where bevel angle is 50% wider) is 3.38 times wedge strength. Start & end keenness levels (apex radius/width) are also relevant here. Newsprint(~70um thick) slicing edge (my est) need to be less than 5um wide and undulation/serrated-depth+gap less than 15um. It takes very little impact force to incur apex damages with diameter 20+um range. I think, edge in video has strong impact load but w/o stated sharpening angle (look like it has a micro bevel on the flat side of the chisel grind) - hard to draw meaningful data especially at start/end keenness in sub 10um level.

This edge vs Bussie vs Jack Hammer Bit = Apple vs coconut vs a rock. If Bussie & JHB sharpened to same edge geometry as edge in video, I doubt these 2 edges would slice newsprint after tests.
 
Ehh not that impressive. I've tortured my contego much harder and still slice paper and shave fine. I did roll the edge a tad cutting a masonry nail. That said the guy in your video is babying that knife op.
 
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