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You criticize the OP but post no evidence
I would love to SEE you cut nails and/or bone with such a thin blade instead of just talking about it
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- Thread starter MichaelMyers
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You criticize the OP but post no evidence
I would love to SEE you cut nails and/or bone with such a thin blade instead of just talking about it
Cobalt
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!st - You think the original vids are hard use. So you obviously do not know what hard use is.
2nd- I did not criticize OP. I criticized the videos as not being hard tests. I cannot help it if OP takes it personally. Which makes me wonder how much of a shill thread this is in the first place.
3rd - Since you asked, here is a knife(mine) that did not survive my 3/8" cement nail test. Broke after about 100 seconds of batoning it with a hammer. The Carothers blade and the Busse both survived 7 minutes of the same abuse with no fracture and I stopped because there was no signs of give in either. 1095 cannot take as much abuse. Much like O1 cannot either. No slam, they are still good steels. But the point is that those videos prove nothing.
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Good info Cobalt... why but why did you buy this toxic green knife ?
Zombies?
Zombies?
Cobalt
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Keeps me from loosing it when I am in the woods and if I am stupid enough to set it down causing it to go into camo mode and I cannot find it. My BK39 has the same handle.
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Is that kbar 1095 cro van ?
Made in the usa ?
I am somewhat surprised it broke like that
Made in the usa ?
I am somewhat surprised it broke like that
Cobalt
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I'm not. What I did is very abusive and I intended to propagate a crack from the damaged edge by continuing to hammer on it.
[video=youtube;w4rXVKQV85I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4rXVKQV85I[/video]
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!st - You think the original vids are hard use. So you obviously do not know what hard use is.
2nd- I did not criticize OP. I criticized the videos as not being hard tests. I cannot help it if OP takes it personally. Which makes me wonder how much of a shill thread this is in the first place.
3rd - Since you asked, here is a knife(mine) that did not survive my 3/8" cement nail test. Broke after about 100 seconds of batoning it with a hammer. The Carothers blade and the Busse both survived 7 minutes of the same abuse with no fracture and I stopped because there was no signs of give in either. 1095 cannot take as much abuse. Much like O1 cannot either. No slam, they are still good steels. But the point is that those videos prove nothing.
Why would I take it personally? Like I say before those are not my vids and I don't even know the bladesmith. Just posting it as I think it his tests results are uncommon. I know for sure that my knives certainly will not clean slice paper after chopping any steel bolt. Heck some of them micro chipped on me after hard cutting of cardboard. Even at 30 degree inclusive. This guy does at 10 degree chisel grind. I do agree that there are tests out there that are harder on the blade but none of them shows the condition of the blade edge as undamaged and still paper slicing sharp after the tests. Even cold steels dubious tests shows them chopping through leg and bone in one swing and punching through car doors. But they don't show a close up the edge after and don't them cutting paper. The edges could be riddled with tiny chips and rolls that won't be obvious on video.
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Cobalt
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But you understand that he didn't chop thru a steel bolt, right. He just gave it some very light wacks and that was it. Knife at Rc=63. Bolt at Rc of 20-30. Light wacks into bolt. Bolt looses. Just tellin you that this is no big deal. No need for me to continue. Enjoy
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Your vid shows a big roll that that kabars edge. Will it clean slice newsprint after this? Actually I am surprised it took such such a damage. I have very good impression of 1095 cv in other tests that I saw on the USMC. Its good hard steel but not brittle.
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Either way it is still impressive at the angle of the edge.. 10 dps, useless to some and not exactly ideal
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Bone from a just killed animal [cow]is significantly tougher than dry bone as I had seen in medical tests.
Deer leg bones are ,IIRC 7 times stronger than that of a cow ! This also from medical tests !
That green handled chip may have been twisted before taking it from the bone !
Deer leg bones are ,IIRC 7 times stronger than that of a cow ! This also from medical tests !
That green handled chip may have been twisted before taking it from the bone !
Knuckle of wild boar is something hardest I tried
except antler ... with excellent HT can also perform this task a thin blade.
I have seen this in the example D2 steel, which has a reputation to chip easily.
Cobalt I saw a video that was wrong what you're doing, definitely bad example
testing, a poorly set knife, bouncing on impact because the surface is soft wooden stump all that affects your result.
[video=youtube;vxUA7pyscro]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxUA7pyscro[/video]
[video=youtube;AJ-8NuK3a9w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ-8NuK3a9w[/video]
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Cobalt
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Cobalt
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Chumaman, I do not disagree with what you say. But my intent was to try to cause a fracture through the blades.
First video - Very interesting way to do a nail test. I have not seen that one before.
Second video - That is a beast of a knife. I am always looking for another beast
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USA made. cross section of blade
I am not surprised to see this. My BK16 looked similar when I broke about 1/2 inch off the tip.
A properly heat treated O1 blade will do 99% of knife related tasks. I would put my NWA (diff heat treated spine around 50 and edge at 61) in the same category toughness wise as my RMD. Both of these can take a beating. Edge retention is similar on both.
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If enough force can be focused onto a very small area then something is going to give. Steel hammer onto steel can cause some interesting harmonics that only add to the steel's stresses. Tempered hard then its going to crack, tempered soft and elastic its going to roll or squidge.
We want our knives to have hard edges so they don't wear. We want our knives soft so they don't snap. We select the steels that show good qualities and each is biased to one way or the other and a lot depends on the heat treatment processes to get the most from whatever steel to do compliment the compromises we want. Some makers get it more right than others.
Broken knives are generally from overwhelming the steels limitations. From all the compromises made to get a knife finished there is still some "luck" built in. Luck in the steel, luck in the build when some process never took, luck in the use its put to. The BK16 above may have given years and years of service but ran out of luck because it was Cobalt's! It was given a task that it might never encountered in another life and reached its limit. Thousands of USMC Kar Bars have been made, bought and used and no one would argue that they haven't given sterling service. Sure some met their limit and ran out of luck, but some are real veterans too.
The tests in the vids doesn't prove much. However, testing, even forced testing to destruction is always interesting. How and doing what that breaks a blade tells some story. Most of the blades I've snapped over the years are from abuse; some not from much abuse. The knives have run out of luck because I've found their limitation. If that was a one off, or combinative long term stress, the blade has still succumbed and broke.
Of course we all want a knife to take everything we throw at it. Sure it can be built better, built stout too. We can also change our way we work with a blade so less likely to put too much stress on the steel. I generally prefer to buy a thin blade that cuts well but then its not going to be as strong. No blade is indestructible.
Testing is fun, and from it all we might get better products. Informing others of our findings might improve the end product and stop poor compromises getting through the decision and processes that get a blade on the shop shelf. The better knives today are a whole lot better than 20 years ago. Some are similar, some still not that great, but the best and majority a lot better than before. Thats progress and part due to asking the questions.
There will always be some luck built in but I think we are building more luck in than ever before. Certainly there is a better understanding of whats going on. There are still bloopers made in design and the making, but those are are soon found out. Thankfully amongst it all some outstanding blades out there with glowing reports. Annoyingly some great knives get compromised when a manufacturer changes something either to save a few cents or to find a new angle to sell more. Look carefully and there is probably a great tool for you. Hope you have some luck.
We want our knives to have hard edges so they don't wear. We want our knives soft so they don't snap. We select the steels that show good qualities and each is biased to one way or the other and a lot depends on the heat treatment processes to get the most from whatever steel to do compliment the compromises we want. Some makers get it more right than others.
Broken knives are generally from overwhelming the steels limitations. From all the compromises made to get a knife finished there is still some "luck" built in. Luck in the steel, luck in the build when some process never took, luck in the use its put to. The BK16 above may have given years and years of service but ran out of luck because it was Cobalt's! It was given a task that it might never encountered in another life and reached its limit. Thousands of USMC Kar Bars have been made, bought and used and no one would argue that they haven't given sterling service. Sure some met their limit and ran out of luck, but some are real veterans too.
The tests in the vids doesn't prove much. However, testing, even forced testing to destruction is always interesting. How and doing what that breaks a blade tells some story. Most of the blades I've snapped over the years are from abuse; some not from much abuse. The knives have run out of luck because I've found their limitation. If that was a one off, or combinative long term stress, the blade has still succumbed and broke.
Of course we all want a knife to take everything we throw at it. Sure it can be built better, built stout too. We can also change our way we work with a blade so less likely to put too much stress on the steel. I generally prefer to buy a thin blade that cuts well but then its not going to be as strong. No blade is indestructible.
Testing is fun, and from it all we might get better products. Informing others of our findings might improve the end product and stop poor compromises getting through the decision and processes that get a blade on the shop shelf. The better knives today are a whole lot better than 20 years ago. Some are similar, some still not that great, but the best and majority a lot better than before. Thats progress and part due to asking the questions.
There will always be some luck built in but I think we are building more luck in than ever before. Certainly there is a better understanding of whats going on. There are still bloopers made in design and the making, but those are are soon found out. Thankfully amongst it all some outstanding blades out there with glowing reports. Annoyingly some great knives get compromised when a manufacturer changes something either to save a few cents or to find a new angle to sell more. Look carefully and there is probably a great tool for you. Hope you have some luck.
Cobalt
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Here is a Busse leaner meaner street hammered on this one for 7 minutes and finally just gave up.
[video=youtube;zzpL9CW_AJA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzpL9CW_AJA[/video]
Here is the same test on a Nathan Carothers super HT 3V blade. I hammered on this thing for almost 7 minutes and stopped.
[video=youtube;Vzt46wKXyQI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzt46wKXyQI[/video]
The point was to attempt to propagate a crack through the blade. I could not. The busse was another baseline knife. These are both excellent HT's. I was averaging about 60 hammer hits every 40 seconds or so. Yes, if my surface had not been bouncy, the blades would have cut through the tough cement nails faster, but that was not what I was intending to do.
[video=youtube;zzpL9CW_AJA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzpL9CW_AJA[/video]
Here is the same test on a Nathan Carothers super HT 3V blade. I hammered on this thing for almost 7 minutes and stopped.
[video=youtube;Vzt46wKXyQI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzt46wKXyQI[/video]
The point was to attempt to propagate a crack through the blade. I could not. The busse was another baseline knife. These are both excellent HT's. I was averaging about 60 hammer hits every 40 seconds or so. Yes, if my surface had not been bouncy, the blades would have cut through the tough cement nails faster, but that was not what I was intending to do.
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Nice one. Certainly Busse and a few others can produce tough blades. Those at the top of their game sure get the most out of the materials used. Clever guys.
To get these results a real effort has been made and should be applauded. The other side of the coin is that most people haven't got the disposable income to pay for such items, but also few have any use for such capabilities. My wife does not need such performance in the kitchen nor that build design. Her kitchen knives are specialised for what she is doing and absolutely the right choice.
But its sure nice to see how far the boundaries can be pushed. For the price of one Busse I have a selection of specialised tools that combined beat a single Busse for the myriad of tasks I have to do. Non would come close at being a Busse.
(Just using Busse as a aid to the point I am trying to make, I could use any high cost pinnacle blade.)
For all tests then a machine can be made to pass that test. Some are able to pass quite a few. Blade competitions produce some very interesting designs and builds to win the tasks that are given. Specialist tools for specialist tasks.
To get these results a real effort has been made and should be applauded. The other side of the coin is that most people haven't got the disposable income to pay for such items, but also few have any use for such capabilities. My wife does not need such performance in the kitchen nor that build design. Her kitchen knives are specialised for what she is doing and absolutely the right choice.
But its sure nice to see how far the boundaries can be pushed. For the price of one Busse I have a selection of specialised tools that combined beat a single Busse for the myriad of tasks I have to do. Non would come close at being a Busse.
(Just using Busse as a aid to the point I am trying to make, I could use any high cost pinnacle blade.)
For all tests then a machine can be made to pass that test. Some are able to pass quite a few. Blade competitions produce some very interesting designs and builds to win the tasks that are given. Specialist tools for specialist tasks.