In-Between Axe Recommendation?

S

Steve Sr.

Joined
Jun 26, 2018
Messages
42
Hello,

First a little background. I am male 61 years young, 5'9" and 150 pounds. Being a desk jockey most of my career I don't have a lot of upper body strength. I do a fair amount of volunteer trail construction and maintenance with several national and local organizations.

My predominate tool of choice is a chainsaw carried in an external frame backpack with a custom made saw carrier adapter. I am looking to add an axe to my saw pack for the primary purpose of hammering plastic felling wedges. However, it would also be useful for chopping the chainsaw out of a bind or doing some light limbing.

I have done a little research and it looks like I need something that is slightly larger and heavier than a boys axe and smaller/lighter than a traditional chopping/felling axe. This would put it in the 2.5-3.0 pound head weight range. For the overall length I would like to keep it in the 20-26" range. So how is the haft length measured? Overall or from the bottom of the head?

I wouldn't mind finding and re-hanging an old head on a new haft. I started looking on the Bay and there are close to 1000 axes and heads for Plumb and True-Temper and would need some input on where to start a search.

Thanks,
Steve
 
For what you described I think a 2- 2.5 lbs head would be good. Dayton or Michigan pattern. Personally I would go with as long a handle that you can carry on your pack setup, without it being too cumbersome (26”?). Also, a stright handle will be better for pounding wedges.
 
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Hickory n steel said:
I think a boys axe would actually suit your needs perfectly.
A council tools boys axe would be a good choice
Click to expand...

I just spent a good while on the Council Tools site. Actually they are only about 3 hours down the road from here and even have a local hardware store distributor that I'll have to check out. Here are choices that I see:

http://counciltool.com/shop/dayton-...24-curved-wooden-handle-sport-utility-finish/

http://counciltool.com/shop/velvicut/velvicut-2-25-premium-bad-axe-boys-axe-sheath/

BTW, What does the $100 Velvicut premium actually buy you? Better alloy? Better finishing? Better handle?


Hickory n steel said:
but a vintage boys axe head would be even better.
Click to expand...

Any specifics on what to look for? I am assuming on an auction site like the Bay? I started looking and there were literally hundreds of choices and there is apparent demand where someone will inevitably pay more than its worth.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
I would say a boys axe or even smaller: Something you can wield with one hand and 2 hands if necessary? 2,5 pounds should be fine. You could use a 3 pound head, but remember, you still have to lug it around. So you might as well look in the 2lb range? It is a side tool only needed in a pinch or am i wrong? if so, you length estimate would be spot on. I am a fair bit larger (6'4") and like a 22" inch haft the best.
Click to expand...

Interesting haft length for your height. I would have thought that taller folks would prefer a longer haft. Right now I have a rescued 3# sledge with a 18" haft which I find hard to control one-handed. So, I was observing our legendary chainsaw class instructor and he has what looks like a boy's axe with a short haft but the head is actually 3.5-4 pounds like a regular axe! I would have though that this combination would have been hard to swing but he has been doing it for longer than me!

This is one reason I was considering going a little bit heavier, up to 3 pounds. The previously mentioned Council's are only 2.25#. Haven't seen many (any?) in that weight range which is one reason I may end up rehanging a good used head on a shorter haft.


Kevin Houtzager said:
As for the bit itself. Think about what you want the most: Using it for limbing or using it for cutting the chainsaw out? If chainsaw look for a wide bit: it more forgiving when you strike the chainsaw by accident. If limbing look for a narrower bit: It'll limb way more effectively.
Click to expand...

Primary use is going to be for driving wedges or chopping out the saw. Therefore wider cheeks and a full poll.


Thanks,
Steve
 
"I do a fair amount of volunteer trail construction and maintenance with several national and local organizations."
Steve,
Just wondering what the majority of your volunteer crew mates are carrying ?

Charles
 
Steve Sr. said:
I just spent a good while on the Council Tools site. Actually they are only about 3 hours down the road from here and even have a local hardware store distributor that I'll have to check out. Here are choices that I see:
http://counciltool.com/shop/dayton-...24-curved-wooden-handle-sport-utility-finish/
http://counciltool.com/shop/velvicut/velvicut-2-25-premium-bad-axe-boys-axe-sheath/
..
Click to expand...

If you want to go heavier with a straight handle, Council also has a "miners axe" with 3.5# head on a 26" handle, in a couple patterns:

35md26.jpg

35mj26-1.jpg


Steve Sr. said:
What does the $100 Velvicut premium actually buy you? Better alloy? Better finishing? Better handle?...
Click to expand...

Pretty much all that and a sheath. Whether it's worth the extra money is a matter of opinion.
 
Square_peg said:
I'd go with a boys axe (and often have on trail work projects like you describe). I made special purpose axe similar to what you describe but I put a longer handle on it support a crosscut saw for underbucking. But a boys axe pairs nicely with the chain saw. With the right profile a boys axe is a helluva chopper.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/walters-axe-with-knob-end-handle-wip-pic-heavy.1535911/
Click to expand...

I think that a boy's axe is in the right territory. So is you longer haft only for use as an underbuck or is it helpful in other ways too?

BTW, the photos are all gone from your referenced post above.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Drum4fun said:
"I do a fair amount of volunteer trail construction and maintenance with several national and local organizations."
Steve,
Just wondering what the majority of your volunteer crew mates are carrying ?

Charles
Click to expand...
Most are carrying Silky pruning saws or regular bow saws and no axes... But you can't pound a wedge with either of these! Sawyering for trail work has gotten specialized. You have to be certified and then recertified every three years for either chainsaw or crosscut saw use on public lands. You also have to actually use the tools to stay proficient. This is a time commitment that not all volunteers can afford.
 
Steve Sr. said:
Interesting haft length for your height. I would have thought that taller folks would prefer a longer haft. Right now I have a rescued 3# sledge with a 18" haft which I find hard to control one-handed. So, I was observing our legendary chainsaw class instructor and he has what looks like a boy's axe with a short haft but the head is actually 3.5-4 pounds like a regular axe! I would have though that this combination would have been hard to swing but he has been doing it for longer than me!

This is one reason I was considering going a little bit heavier, up to 3 pounds. The previously mentioned Council's are only 2.25#. Haven't seen many (any?) in that weight range which is one reason I may end up rehanging a good used head on a shorter haft.




Primary use is going to be for driving wedges or chopping out the saw. Therefore wider cheeks and a full poll.


Thanks,
Steve
Click to expand...
That axe size got me thinking; Maybe he uses miner's axe with hardened poll.
 
crbnSteeladdict said:
That axe size got me thinking; Maybe he uses miner's axe with hardened poll.
Click to expand...
Possibly a good call. I wasn't aware of the miner's axes until I saw one on the Council web site. However, the haft on his is curved like a regular axe haft and not straight like the miner's axe I saw online. I am beginning to think it is a re-hung regular axe with a shorter haft. Unfortunately, it will be 5 months before I likely see him again to find out for sure.
 
Kevin Houtzager said:
You have to ask yourself the following question: How good is my aim? and what am I willing to carry? carry weight is self explanatory. Aim is two-fold: 1. driving in wedges. 2. hitting the chainsaw when trying to get it loose. Heavier weight is less control and more damage to the chainsaw should you hit it. Less weight is more pounding on wedges, but less likely to damage the chainsaw.
Click to expand...

My aim is not that good so won't be chopping near the chainsaw. Usually it is not necessary to get that close. Once the tension in the branch is relieved the saw usually comes right back out.

Carry weight is an issue as you suggest. That 3# sledge is noticeable and I would like to keep the axe weight at or below this amount.
 
I think a good starting point for the length of someones personal axe is measure the length of your arm. As if the axe head is in the palm of your hand and the palm swell is in your armpit.
I've always found 36" handles too long. Either over striking or afraid I'd take it in the nuts if I choked up too much on the handle.
I'm 5'6" and 160lbs. A 26 inch handle is just the thing for me when spitting wood.
 
Steve Sr. said:
I think that a boy's axe is in the right territory. So is you longer haft only for use as an underbuck or is it helpful in other ways too?
Click to expand...

The longer haft also increases power so a light axe hits a little heavier. This is very useful for trail work. Any axe or hatchet will suffice for driving wedges. What you want is a light efficient chopper. A boys axe is a good choice for that. But a light axe on a little longer (than 28" boys) handle makes an even better trail chopper. But with the length comes an axe that is harder to pack.

Steve Sr. said:
Sawyering for trail work has gotten specialized. You have to be certified and then recertified every three years for either chainsaw or crosscut saw use on public lands. You also have to actually use the tools to stay proficient. This is a time commitment that not all volunteers can afford.
Click to expand...

I can relate. I'm Forest Service certified to operate chainsaws or crosscut saws on any Forest Service land. Up here in WA we re-certify every 2 years. The certification program started by the Back Country Horsemen of Washington was actually the pilot program for certifying sawyers for FS lands. We were the first one.

All that said, I'd still look for a 2-1/4 to 3 pound axe on a 24"-30" handle for your work. A Hudson Bay would work but they will work loose under serious work because of their short eye. That's why I prefer the boys axe, longer eye.

If shopping for a vintage axe True Temper and Plumb are safe brands. Look for an axe with a long toe, a sign that it hasn't been heavily worn. Also look for poll damage, you don't want an axe that was used for pounding steel wedges.

If you could find a 2-3/4 pound axe like my Walters and put it on a 26" - 30" haft I think it would serve you extremely well. If you also wanted to use it as an underbuck then I would want at least a 32" haft.
 
Steve Sr. - Welcome to the forum!
My favorite saw comapnion axe - for last weekend anyway (026 Stihl, logging out a trail in medium sized fir) - is a 2-1/4# Craftsman boys axe, hung on a 28" crusier double bit haft.
I want a straight haft for driving wedges, and by doing a little work on the tounge most of the "fat" replacement hafts available today
can be made to fit nicely. Finished length usually ends up between 26 to 27". Total weight is just over 3#.
If working in big timber, or doing any felling, I usually carry a 3.5 or 4# on a 32" straight haft. If your packing a 046 Sithl with a 36" bar, or a 7 ft. crosscut saw, the extra weight dosen't
seem to matter as much, and your swamper can help!
I would like to see a picture of your backpack!
 
I'll chime in as well. I'd not go smaller than a boys axe on a 28", if you plan to pound and buck. To be honest, a 3 lb on 28" is about the lightest I use for that, and usually 3.5 lb I like better.

I have several of those 26" council miners axes, the Jersey pattern. They are great chainsaw axes, and decent choppers in a pinch, but not ideal for it with the short handle. Good quality, fair price too. If I'm chainsawing all I use them for is sounding trees, pounding wedges, loose or dirty bark, and the occasional limb or brush swamping out. Not any real serious chopping. I do fall some big tough trees in tight spots and need to be able to drive pretty hard though, so I like the weight of the full size over boys axe.

If I'm really chopping, or in using a crosscut, I'll take a longer handled full size axe. I like 30" or 32", 34" in doublebits. I'm 5'10 180.

For what its worth FS saw policy here is that an axe be in the 3-5lb range.

I'm a USFS C sawyer, and crosscut instructor in our district. Even the instructors have to get together and recertify every 3 years.

If you're there to do a job, sometimes you gotta just use the right tools, easiest to carry or not.
 
I will start off by saying that to me it would vary more based on what im going to be doing.

If its mostly bucking with an occasional felling of a tree alot of times i just cut a log/limb on sight to drive the wedges because its easy and works and I'm already carrying fuel and bar oil ,chainsaw and my bag with extra chains tools etc.

But when getting serious about felling 20 or more big trees i just cary an estwing hatchet combo or a true temper dynamic hatchet heck i have even just carried my framing hammer.

Usually ill just use the hatchet in conjunction with the toolbelt and use the pouches for my wedges etc. That is if im not using my climbing gear of course thats a whole other story.

Right now i have too many saws and i have been working on alot of others for friends family etc. Doing woods porting, advancing timing making a 50cc saws run with the 60cc class. Currently my saws are 2 ported husky 346xps 1 soon to be ported stihl 261cm ported 372 xp ported stihl 660 and my favorite a real beast my ported stihl 461 here it is on my old f350 tailgate at its first outing :-)
Resized_20180310_032549.jpeg
 
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