In defense of the poor fish

B

baron_1999

Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
41
Surfing around on the topic of fishing I came across the following
http://www.animalliberation.org.au/fishrec.php
I have trouble thinking someone could actually put this out seriously. While I am all for being humane in dealing with animals - I take that to be a quick dispatch with a sharp knife. I suppose these people will be trying to pass a law to keep fish from eating each other alive:rolleyes:.
 
ha, yay, a bunch of hippies:D

I've had this arguement with many people, I never get around their thinking, qouensidently neither do they get around mine.:D
 
Worthless Worthless people!! Such misplaced priority's :barf: How about these people focus all their wasted time and energy into something productive..i.e. helping the homeless/working with abused women & children/volunteering at hospitals, etc.... There is something skewed/messy about people like this, that put animals on the same level or higher as people. :barf::barf::jerkit::jerkit:
 
I've often wondered when they'd get around to fishing. I guess they'd be happy if we all sat around and starved. I hope they don't find out about the hog I butchered last month... Yum yum!
 
well.. i'm a semi-vegetarian, but still eat fish/shellfish.
:o wonder how much rep i just lost here...

anyways.

my viewpoint is that i'll eat anything i'm willing to take the life of. that includes fish, though i prefer to throw them into a cooler with icewater quickly after catching them. I know thats not how commercial fishing is done.. but i can get past that.
I do place many animals on a similar plane to humans, not equal or higher, but similar none the less. They still have life, feel pain, etc, but don't have the same level of social interaction and logical thought, based on our current understanding.
I've got no objections to people eating beef, chicken, pork, etc.. some issues with veal, but oh well.
In a survival situation, i'd throw the vegetarian thing out the window, and eat the same as the rest of you.

figured someone had to provide a moderated viewpoint from the other side
 
I don't think anyone will mind as long as no one tries to force their views on others. This goes both ways of course.

I personally don't care that you are semi-vegetarian as you put it.
 
You know why animal activists are more opposed to fur than leather?

It is much safer to pick on a little old lady in a fur coat than a leather clad biker!

I have been trying to get my buddies to ride to a PETA protest with me and stand around eating a bucket of KFC and watch the freaks.
 
I don't have a great deal of sympathy for animal liberation extremists and I'm an avid (if somewhat incompetent) fisherman, but they aren't completely talking out of their backsides here. I've spent the last two years as a grad student studying animal behaviour and from time to time I have been questioned by undergrads (and even in one case a cogsci prof) as to whether fish feel pain. The number of vegetarians and sportsmen that have deluded themselves into believing fish don't feel pain is actually pretty astonishing (I'm not refering to you, xxguitarist, or, for that matter, anyone else here).

Their bony faces certainly aren't as expressive as those of mammals, but they do feel pain and they do remember it for quite some time. Fishes have continued to evolve since the split with with tetrapods back in the late Devonian and, in many cases, they are more intelligent and socially complex than we give them credit for. Because of myths surrounding fishes and pain I do grudgingly appreciate some of these groups' attempts to educate and inform even where I disagree with their conclusions.

For my part I try to dispatch any fish that I'm going to keep as quickly and painlessly as possible. I don't use live fish (or other vertebrates) as bait when I go fishing, although were it to become a matter of survival that personal rule, like many others, would go out the window in a hurry. I'm not overly concerned about the pain of hooking the fish--I've have a few piercings myself and it's not so bad--but in the event of a really badly hooked fish I'll kill it before I try to retrieve the lure. And if I go fishing at all it generally means I'm interested in eating some of the tasty teleosts. One advantage to fishing (hunting too although I've never had the opportunity to do any) is that the fish get to go about their ordinary fishy lives when they aren't getting caught and eaten. They may have to suffer the odd hook, but at least they don't have to suffer some of the excesses of modern factory farming.
 
Perhaps ALF folks could be hunted and eaten? More meat than fish, they live for a time before you need to kill them, not a bad livestock choice.
 
I dont make animals I hunt suffer needlessly , I dont make fish I catch suffer needlesly . I do believe in killing things fast and clean .


when people can take the time to sit down and get all touchy feely about stuff like this tho , they really need to have a real hard look at themselves , in my humble opinion .
 
last year i read an medical article in a highly recomended german newspaper. the medicins found out that fishes, like worms, can feel pain. BUT :D their brain cannot handle/transmit this impulse. so, conclusionally, the fish doesn´t feel pain. their brain ist too small for that. :eek:
i hope you guys could follow my basic english words ;)

Arne, the hobbyfisher
 
If someone wants to be a vegitarian for dietary or health reasons, fine. I will happily discuss it and hear them out. When they act like it gives them a sense of moral superiority I loose interest real fast. Humans are omnivores. Mac
 
Zounds! OK, as a hunter, fisherman, farmer who routinely dispatches animals with different methods and for various reasons including consuption, here is my take on this.

Vertabrates do feel pain. They do not, however process pain the same way that humans do. They are unable to think and reason the way we do. They are unable to "imagine" the future consequences of injury, and thus do not have the same response to pain that humans do.

Additionally, it is also my own personal belief that animals were put here for humans to use and consume. To dominate. This does impart upon us a strong responsibility to good stewardhip of animals, both wild and domestic.

I also believe that we are omnivores, and a good balanced diet includes both plants and animals. Yes, I know that some people choose to eat only plants and for their own personal reasons. I am fine with that as long as they don't make it a moral crusade and try to force their viewpoint and diet upon me or others. Neither their viewpoint nor mine contains a morsel of moral superiority. It is simply a dietary choice.

Codger
 
I'm not against eating animals so long as their not tortured and when their killed their killed quickly.
 
I enjoy both fishing and hunting, it is unfortunate that most of the people today have no idea where the food comes from and how it is prepared. I wonder how long these people would maintain their moral high ground in the 19th century. Chris
 
runningboar said:
I enjoy both fishing and hunting, it is unfortunate that most of the people today have no idea where the food comes from and how it is prepared. I wonder how long these people would maintain their moral high ground in the 19th century. Chris
Click to expand...
:thumbup: well said.
 
Robert H said:
Perhaps ALF folks could be hunted and eaten? More meat than fish, they live for a time before you need to kill them, not a bad livestock choice.
Click to expand...

cid_000020.jpg


:D:D
 
I find myself agreeing with g30ff and Codger - I think vertebrates, including fish, feel pain. I also know that we are omnivores biologically, and a mixed diet of plant and meat is what we're made for.

I've killed my fair share of critters and fish, either for meat, or to keep them from eating my food (rats and mice), and have no problem with that.

What bothers me most in this fishing thing is not the killing of a fish bound for the frying pan, but the willingness to inflict pain and trauma on fish for one's personal pleasure - i.e., "catch and release" fishing. I'm not talking about tossing back a fish that's too big or too little, but the idea of going out to the lake or stream with the intent of not killing any fish, just inflicting trauma on them by hooking and "playing" them.

Morally, this seems much worse to me than catching and killing fish to eat.


Okay, flame away! :D
 
Grampa said:
I find myself agreeing with g30ff and Codger - I think vertebrates, including fish, feel pain. I also know that we are omnivores biologically, and a mixed diet of plant and meat is what we're made for.

I've killed my fair share of critters and fish, either for meat, or to keep them from eating my food (rats and mice), and have no problem with that.

What bothers me most in this fishing thing is not the killing of a fish bound for the frying pan, but the willingness to inflict pain and trauma on fish for one's personal pleasure - i.e., "catch and release" fishing. I'm not talking about tossing back a fish that's too big or too little, but the idea of going out to the lake or stream with the intent of not killing any fish, just inflicting trauma on them by hooking and "playing" them.

Morally, this seems much worse to me than catching and killing fish to eat.


Okay, flame away! :D
Click to expand...

I agree wholeheartedly! Catch and release has always seemed ridiculous to me. I love to fish. I do Salmon and Trout fishing every year. But that is not just for pleasure, but food as well.
 
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